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WikiSpecies notext-invert.svg Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecies.

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Village pump in other languages:

1 (2004-09-21/2005-01-05) 2 (2005-01-05/2005-08-23)
3 (2005-08-24/2005-12-31) 4 (2006-01-01/2005-05-31)
5 (2006-06-01/2006-12-16) 6 (2006-12-17/2006-12-31)
7 (2007-01-01/2007-02-28) 8 (2007-03-01/2007-04-30)
9 (2007-05-01/2007-08-31) 10 (2007-09-01/2007-10-31)
11 (2007-11-01/2007-12-31) 12 (2008-01-01/2008-02-28)
13 (2008-03-01/2008-04-28) 14 (2008-04-29/2008-06-30)
15 (2008-07-01/2008-09-30) 16 (2008-10-01/2008-12-25)
17 (2008-12-26/2009-02-28) 18 (2009-03-01/2009-06-30)
19 (2009-07-01/2009-12-31) 20 (2010-01-01/2010-06-30)
21 (2010-07-01/2010-12-31) 22 (2011-01-01/2011-06-30)
23 (2011-07-01/2011-12-31) 24 (2012-01-01/2012-12-31)
25 (2013-01-01/2013-12-31) 26 (2014-01-01/2014-12-31)
27 (2015-01-01/2015-01-31) 28 (2015-02-01/2015-02-28)
29 (2015-02-28/2015-04-29) 30 (2015-04-29/2015-07-19)
31 (2015-07-19/2015-09-23) 32 (2015-09-23/2015-11-21)
33 (2015-11-21/2015-12-31) 34 (2016-01-01/2016-04-17)
35 (2016-03-22/2016-05-01) 36 (2016-05-01/2016-07-12)
37 (2016-07-13/2016-09-30) 38 (2016-10-01/2016-12-04)
39 (2016-12-04/2017-01-17) 40 (2017-01-18/2017-01-28)
41 (2017-01-29/2017-02-13) 42 (2017-02-14/2017-03-21)
43 (2017-03-20/2017-08-11) 44 (2017-08-10/2017-12-07)
45 (2017-12-08/2018-01-08) 46 (2018-01-19/2018-03-11)
47 (2018-03-11/2018-09-11) 48 (2018-09-01/2019-02-17)
49 (2019-02-22/2019-...)

A lot of data on species at russian Lomonosov Moscow State University resource[edit]


Thanks a lot for your work! World wouldnt be such a great place without wiki resources. I don't know how to contribute here, I'm not in biology at all, but i just found this data source.

Go here, pess ESC, then swtich to EN at the top right corner, for example mark the "Specimens with photo only" checbox on the popup window, click "OK". Then at the top ringt corner change a "Rows" to 1-20000 (max) and I bet you will be impressed how many rare species photos are availible there.

I bielive you could gather much more usefull information there, some of it choul be translated. Maybe somebody could contact MSU, but even if not, somehow we have to save this content before a possible isolation of russian net.

P.S. Other depositaries:

Thanks again, and sorry me for breaking your commetns publishing rules.

Regards, @sntxerror. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 22:22, 12 April 2019‎.

Range block[edit]

Moved to the Administrators' Noticeboard. Diff: [1]


Hi, I'm relatively new to Wikispecies in case you couldn't tell. I'm not actually a taxonomist of any sort, I've just been helping fix, create and clean up taxon articles in my spare time as a kind of hobby, both on the English Wikipedia and, more recently, this site. In particular, one of the areas I've been updating for a while now are the pages linked to Eumolpinae (a subfamily of Chrysomelidae aka the leaf beetles family). Unfortunately, there are a few nomenclature-related messes hiding within this subfamily, and one of them includes the generic name Pales. Bear with me while I explain my problem here...

Long explanation:

For those not aware, the Pales page is linked from both Eumolpinae and Tachinidae (a fly family). From what I'm aware, this confusion is because there are actually two genera named "Pales": one in Tachinidae named by Robineau-Desvoidy (1830), and one in Eumolpinae named by Chevrolat in Dejean's Catalogue of Coleoptera (1836). There is no doubt that Robineau-Desvoidy's name has priority and the other is a homonym. However, the Pales page itself was apparently written for the genus in Eumolpinae! (Well, not really "written", it's a stub page right now quite frankly.)

Now, I could have solved this straight away were it not for the fact that Pales Chevrolat has not one but two replacement names: Floricola Gistel, 1848 and Eupales Lefèvre, 1885. Normally, Floricola should be the name to use, as it has priority over Eupales. However, according to the Catalogue of Palaearctic Coleoptera vol. 6 (2010) (see page 83) and Bouchard et al. (2011) (see pages 539, 733 and 894), there was an ICZN application (case 3498, currently unpublished) submitted in 2009 to suppress Floricola and conserve the name Eupales and the proposed tribe name "Eupalini" (named, but not stated as explicitly new, by Verma et al. (2005): see here on ResearchGate). However again, more recent sources (e.g. here and here) now seem to ignore the application's existence and use Floricola anyway, and no news of this ICZN application itself seems to have been spoken of since 2011 to my knowledge. So then, do we use Floricola because of priority, or use Eupales because of the ICZN application (even if it seems to have been ignored by now)?

This also gives me some additional personal headache, because I created the Eupales article on Wikipedia back in May 2018 before I was fully aware of this name problem (which I later made a note of on the article itself). I hope by addressing this to others first this time I can clear this up properly.

(Additionally, if the name Eupales is chosen, it may be worth noting there is actually a longhorn beetle genus of the same name, Eupales Dillon & Dillon, 1945, which was renamed to Eupalessa by Monné in 2005 (see here). Then again, I don't know if the Eupales/Floricola matter directly affects the name of this genus? Oddly enough though, we already have a page for its sole species, Eupalessa attenuata, but not the genus itself.)

(Oh, and yes, Pales Robineau-Desvoidy is currently a valid name, if it helps to know.)

Short explanation: Pales as it is on Wikipecies right now should be in fact be either Eupales or Floricola ...but I'm not sure which name should be used instead. I put it to Wikispecies' other members to help me out here.

(Apologies for the wall of text.)

Monster Iestyn (talk) 18:03, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Okay, this is a little complicated, so let me try to clarify. The various genera being discussed above are...
  • Pales Robineau-Desvoidy, 18 (Tachinidae)
  • Pales Chevrolat, 1836 (Chrysomelidae:Eumolpinae)
    • This name is not available, and not in use
  • Floricola Gistel, 1848 (proposed as a new name in Naturgeschichte des Thierreichs, p. 123)
    • This is a replacement name for Pales Robineau-Desvoidy, it is not currently the most accepted name
      • No! I think you mean a replacement name for Pales Chevrolat, 1836?! ... WSBiography (talk) 04:40, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Eupales Lefèvre, 1885.
    • The generally accepted (until at least 2009) name for Pales Robineau-Desvoidy, and the base for Eupalini Verma, 2005
  • Eupales Dillon & Dillon, 1945 (Cerambicidae:Lamiinae:Onciderini)
    • An unrelated homonym, its valid replacement name is Eupalessa Dillon & Dillon 1946
The case was notified as having been received in September 2009. But never decided on, much less published. I'd venture there's a likelihood the application was withdrawn (notices of closure of cases after 2011 are inaccessible through sci-hub), but it seems at first blush like the sources using Floricola are very much in the minority. Until the case is resolved, the predominant usage of Eupales is to be preserved. I would consider emailing the ICZN or the applicant of the case in hope of learning what the hell is going on. Circeus (talk) 22:50, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
I checked with some commissioners I know and no one knows anything about that case. I could if you like email the Secretary who is responsible for the publication of cases or the editor of BZN, I do know both of them, but in all honesty since this is a 10 year old submission and not published I am suspecting as you have that it was withdrawn. As a withdrawn case it is not relevant to the issue. In which case we need to follow the recommendations of any published revisions or Priority in the absence of this. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 00:43, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
If the ICZN application was indeed withdrawn, I take it that means we should use Floricola then? All the most recent publications I can find so far that list the genus seem to use that name now anyway. Monster Iestyn (talk) 08:09, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
As best as I can figure it looking at some of the refs, the only justification for maintaining usage of Eupales Lefèvre, 1885 would be if the ICZN Case had been actually published. Under a published case before the commission prevailing usage is to be maintained until they publish an opinion. However without a published case under consideration this is not possible and hence it falls back to the Principal of Priority and the Principal of Homonymy. Pales is clearly a junior homonym hence is not available, therefore the valid name under the Principal of Priority is Floricola Gistel, 1848. Unless someone submits and publishes a case, this cannot be overruled. If someone has published a statistically supported (publication and usage stats) revue of the issue that shows that Eupales has prevailing usage as defined by the code, and Floricola does not meet the criteria, then maybe it could be accepted, but as far as I can tell this has not been done. So I would go with Priority and use Floricola I would suggest you ensure there is a synonymy on the page, with an explanation beside the name Eupales and Pales. That is Pales is a junior homonym, Eupales is a nomen novem. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 08:45, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
I thought maybe Eupales could be declared a nomen oblitum and that's why the application was rejected, but a few mentions here and there noted that Floricola was used at least once in the 1980s, which prevented that. Maybe other factors came to light to influence the withdrawal too, like competing names published between Floricola and Eupales or another homonym for Eupales, but at this point that's entirely speculation on my part. Circeus (talk) 16:22, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I've just now created Floricola (Chrysomelidae) with synonyms included (judging by the genera list in Floricolaceae, the name also used for a plant genus, which is why it was not just "Floricola"). I'm thinking Pales and its taxonav template can probably just be reused for the fly genus instead. I think that should settle it for now hopefully. Thanks both of you! Monster Iestyn (talk) 17:50, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Help for a redirect[edit]

  • Hello, I'm currently working on the genera of the Onuphidae family, I found this redirect: Paxtonia, leading to a plant genus. How to proceed in the extend that there is also a valid Annelid genus? Christian Ferrer (talk) 16:25, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
@Christian Ferrer: I think the answer I just got in the previous section might help, lol. :) Jarnsax (talk) 16:42, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Great, thanks you Jarnsax, I was absorbed by my works and I did not notice that discussion. Now I will will manage to do something. Christian Ferrer (talk) 16:47, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm aware this has already been answered, but another method I've seen for disambiguating plant and animal etc. genera I've seen is putting the family in parenthesis after (as in, "genus (family)"). Though either way, there honestly really needs to be some kind of written-up standard for dealing with homonyms. Monster Iestyn (talk) 19:23, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
The "genus (family)" method is used in the example of Baileya that I cited above. I prefer to use "genus author", as for algae, genera may change their family rather often after every new research. And in groups with taxonomic stability, there may also exist homonyms in the same family. Caused by the lack of a formal center for taxonomic classification for all taxa, there are really a lot of homonyms! ( see also I agree that the way of dealing with homonyms should be described at Wikispecies' help pages, if it is not yet included. --Thiotrix (talk) 22:18, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
The Help stuff has generally seen fairly little updating since... it was created, really. I mean, Stephen came and went, with a highly idiosyncratic style and none of which was ever recorded down anywhere... thankfully tbh, because I,ve seen articles with three references separated by three different subheaders under "references". That way is madness.
I've tried starting a few standardization discussions in the past, but it's always amounted to herding cats. A simple example: we have not even an informal standard reference formatting for handling book series that involve no neat article divisions. (Not that I like the no-templates standard that ended up established, but that's an entirely different topic I've lost a long time ago.) Circeus (talk) 23:02, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
@Circeus: Yes, coming in here at this point, even with experience on wikipedia, figuring out the preferred reference format is kinda nuts.... seems like the easiest option would just be to adopt how they are written in some (whatever) style manual (MLA, APA, whatever). Jarnsax (talk) 02:13, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Last time I counted, I had around 70,000 non-unique genus name instances (homonyms sensu lato) representing perhaps 25,000-30,000 duplicated names, out of around 490,000 genus names total in my database (lists can be auto-generated via so a consistent handling method on WikiSpecies is worth striving for. And that did not even include Rhododictyon (bacterial instance now added...) Cheers - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 19:24, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Feedback wanted on Desktop Improvements project[edit]

06:53, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

nontaxonomic content[edit]

As I stroll through reference templates, I often stumble upon some that are of absolutely no taxonomic or nomenclatural relevance. While I don't touch those of geographical interest (since we record distributions, although I've voiced by disagreement with that), others I have been deleting (e.g., and yes I have had a quick read through to double check). These are, as far as I can tell, all due to Stephen (again... sigh) creating templates for every single papers published in certain journals or by individuals whose bibliography he for some reason wanted to be comprehensive on wikispecies.

So yeah, just a heads up about those occasional "out of project scope" deletions. Circeus (talk) 16:27, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

agree delete them if they are not relevant. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 17:10, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Ok I will do as well! Andyboorman (talk) 19:21, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Fully agree.--Hector Bottai (talk) 19:51, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, but... an otherwise taxonomy-involved-author publishes sometimes an article not purely taxonomic yet for the sake of completeness should be listed on the author's-page (Although not in a template form). For example: Löbl, I. 2017. Assessing biodiversity: a pain in the neck. Bionomina 12: 39–43. doi: 10.11646/bionomina.12.1.3. Mariusm (talk) 09:27, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm not opposed to that, I'm jus opposed to them being either templates or (an even worse offense IMO) being cited in name pages when they are entirely irrelevant to Wikispecies' interests (as the article linked above was). Löbl's paper is actually of generic/peripheral interest to the project, though I can hardly see where we would cite it. Circeus (talk) 18:22, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Maybe among the help pages an explanation of what taxonomy and nomenclature is could be useful? in which case some of these types of pepers could be useful. Personally I do not know that every paper written by everyone that gets a place on this wiki is necessary, my own page only lists relevant papers, I myself have many publications not listed on this site. Some of them are not relevant here. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:01, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Please check the data exists on Wikidata before deleting it here. If necessary, we could use a "Migrate to Wikidata then delete" template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:58, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

What to do with Protista[edit]

As I was patrolling today there was one on Protista to deal with and I noticed it had been tagged as in dispute some time ago. I added a delete tag to it to flag it, though in my comment I stated we should discuss it. @Andyboorman: removed the tag, which is fair enough, my main aim was to get its attention. The tag can go for now. Ok this Division is no longer used in Biology, it was shown to be paraphyletic. There is some discussion on its talk page about this. It is no longer linked within the groups to which it once represented, though does still have a link up to its former Parent taxon Eukaryota. The reverse is not true. So it is currently a dead end so to speak. So what do we wish to do with this? Options are delete, redirect (to Eukaryota??) or leave it be. I would like to hear some suggestions though please. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 20:24, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi Scott, all... if Wikispecies uses Ruggiero et al's 2015 classification, Protista (colourless unicells) mostly equates to their kingdom Protozoa plus part (only) of their Chromista (the situation has got a bit murkier as Chromista has been expanded to include some large colourless groups such as Radiolaria). So I would make an approximate mapping between Protista and Protozoa, noting the fuzzy boundaries. On the other hand if you follow Adl et al., there is not such a single approximate mapping, and someone else should suggest what to do. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 11:56, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
I would vote to adopt Adl et al. and redirect protista to eukaryotes. Here's a good recent review on the issue. Voganaa (talk) 14:40, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
I shall pass a message to Barun Sen Gupta when I go to LSU Tuesday. He should have an idea of preferred classification.Neferkheperre (talk) 14:52, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Far as I see, this is one of those situation where we can't be entirely neutral if we want to mimic something like ITIS, but as we are not a structured database, we can actually display multiple conflicting classifications if we so decide. Circeus (talk) 18:26, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:BHL's documentation finally displays properly[edit]

See Template:BHL for the current result. Turns out the start of the green doc box was being included as part of the list item started by the template itself, splitting it from the rest of the box. A single line break before {{documentation}} fixed the problem.

Thought I'd put this news here in case there are similar problems with docs for other templates that involve list syntax. Monster Iestyn (talk) 20:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Displaying vernacular names from Wikidata[edit]

There was some talk recently of using Wikidata to populate {{Vn}}. This will reduce the workload for editors on this project, increase the quantity of names we display, especially in under-served languages, improve the searchability of our content, and reduce the duplication of data currently being stored twice.

A rough-and-ready prototype has now kindly been provided by User:RexxS. This is at {{VN/sandboxWD}} and an example of its use (since reverted) can be seen in [2], immediately below the output of the current template (retained in that edit for ease of comparison).

If you wish to see it in action, you can put:

{{VN/sandboxWD |useWikidata=true}}

into the body of page about a taxon with a common name, and preview (please don't save) it. (The need for |useWikidata=true will be dropped before the template is finalised.)

We (that is, RexxS, at my request) plan to add the ability to include local overrides, so, for example:

{{VN |de=Foo |fr=Bar |hu=}}

will display all the available values from Wikidata, except for the German and French names "Foo" and "Bar", and nothing at all for Hungarian.

We can then turn our attention to any aesthetic changes that the community may desire. Please do report any bugs or other issues. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:04, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Looking good tried it on a lizard, thanks. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:16, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Have a look here Pavetta. Is this what is required? I have left the original as a comparison. Andyboorman (talk) 14:25, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
I think we don't need interwiki links here in the VN table, as they are already available at the left side. The table looks rather messy yet and will need some formatting (columns). --Thiotrix (talk) 10:18, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

We used to link VN from wikidata, but the result was such a mess - full of errors, inconsistencies and ridiculous duplication - that we got rid of it. I'd not want to return. - MPF (talk) 09:56, 4 November 2019 (UTC)


Is there any reason why BRKMAHS is not spam? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:06, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

not that I can see. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 21:36, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Looks like something that fell out of Wikipedia. Neferkheperre (talk) 12:44, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Nothing to do here. Delete.--Hector Bottai (talk) 13:21, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Done Circeus (talk) 03:00, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Marking synonym, invalid or deleting[edit]

What is the process when a species is no longer appropriate or valid? I'm thinking of Testudo werneri which is now a synonym of Testudo kleinmanni. I'm sure there will be other taxon, so would like to know the process involved. Sun Creator (talk) 12:44, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Sun Creator: welcome from WP. What should generally happen is the synonymy on the Testudo kleinmanni page would be updated to include the species Testudo werneri and the now junior synonym will become a redirect to the senior synonym. The page is not usually deleted, just a redirect. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 14:33, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
Just looked at them the Testudo are not up to date I will look at them later today and fix it up. I think when I added the fossil Testudo I added the subgenera those pages may be somewhat orphaned from the main nomenclatural taxonomy of the Testudo. I will fix it up. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 14:43, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
@Sun Creator: all fixed, cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 15:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Update of "Other review tools" header[edit]

The header "Other review tools" on page Special:RecentChanges seems to be out-of-date. It shows yellow marking for a RFC that is no longer active, but misses a marking for a request for Translation Adminship. I do not know, where or how this is updated. Kind regards, --Thiotrix (talk) 10:07, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

It can be updated at MediaWiki:Recentchangestext (example diffs: [3], [4]). Korg (talk) 18:13, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for this information. It is now updated. --Thiotrix (talk) 07:18, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Protocapitella Berkeley, 1932[edit]

Hello, the only species of the genus above have been moved to another genus. I guess that it is not needed to create an entry here, is it? If it is relevant to create it, then ok, no problem, but otherwise I delete the name from the genera list of the family Arenicolidae, no? I do not see the point in keeping the red link. Eitheir I create it (the reference template is already created) or I delete it from the list. Christian Ferrer (talk) 15:47, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

This would make the above genus a junior synonym of the genus its species was moved to. If the genus was used and may be searched for the genus can be a redirect to its now valid name. If its never really been used and its not created leave it that way but list it as a synonym on the genus page. Yes definitely delete it from the family page, red link can go. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 15:54, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
WoRMS (and therefore IRMNG) presently has Protocapitella listed as accepted (WoRMS), but that may be an oversight. I have sent an email to the relevant WoRMS editor (Geoff Read for Annelida) and will await a response. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 21:33, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
OK, fixed now in WoRMS courtesy of Geoff, also in IRMNG. Tony 1212 (talk) 04:20, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Important resource for Japanese journals[edit]

I just came across this and since our pages on Japanese journals tend to be more likely then average to be bare (although Russian journals, I find, are often worse off), I thought I'd share it. It's shock full of places to find these articles:

(use sci-hub to access it) Circeus (talk) 16:09, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't look like you need Sci-Hub here actually, this article appears to be open access. Monster Iestyn (talk) 16:40, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Jesus, I am an idiot today XD Circeus (talk) 17:35, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
For Russian journals, take a look here. --RLJ (talk) 18:30, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Of course, I mean a resource fro someone who doesn't speak Russian. Usually the problem is moving from the transliterated titles in many databases to the actually useful Cyrillic title. If I can puzzle out either the title in cyrillic or the ISSN, I can usually get at least some info through (that's how I got the ISSN for this. i should have taken the time to create a journal page, I'll admit). I haven't yet puzzled much about the potential usefulness of, though.
I'm thinking a page compiling repositories would be useful, there's so many and new ones crop all the time @.@ Circeus (talk) 22:55, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
@Circeus: Is that possibly the same as Doklady Akademii Nauk Tadzhikskoi SSR (Q16557846)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:35, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
Probably. The website implies rather heavily that the ISSN didn't change after the country's name did. Circeus (talk) 13:59, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Internal links formatted as external ones (Bot please?)[edit]

If anyone's looking for a cleanup/bot task, here's one! Circeus (talk) 19:02, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

ETA: Wasn't there a bot doing this on templates at one point? because there's 5.6K of those still to do, and using the search function is a LOT less efficient than Special:WhatLinksHere or even Special:PrefixIndex . Circeus (talk) 04:13, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Jonas Rimantas Stonis taxa[edit]

Circeus. Can you transferred the species with Johan R. Stonis taxa to Jonas Rimantas Stonis taxa? (102). With hand it cost a lot of time.PeterR (talk) 08:28, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Will have a look. Circeus (talk) 16:39, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
What's going on between that and Rimantas Puplesis? Is it a married/birth name thing? Or did he change his name for another reason? (apparently Stonis is his mother's name?) Circeus (talk) 17:29, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Done, either way. Circeus (talk) 00:19, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
First he published under Rimantas Puplesis after then he published under the name Jonas R[imantas] Stonis.
Thanks for transferred above transaction PeterR (talk) 07:11, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #2 – Mobile editing and talk pages[edit]

11:13, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey 2020 is open[edit]

m:Community Wishlist Survey 2020/Wikispecies. —Justin (koavf)TCM 19:38, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Full name: E.T. Giles[edit]

Anyone can help with this one? It's a page creation of Stephen, so can't ask him. Author (can't quite tell if they are male or female) was active form the 50s to the 70s at and based in Australia, associated with the Museum of South Australia and the University of New England. This has not proved enough to allow me to ferret out a full, name however. Anyone got ideas? Circeus (talk) 20:46, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

from South Australian Museum Archives "In March, 1955, Dr. Edward Thomas Giles became official Entomologist at the Museum. A New Zealander, he had just completed a postgraduate course at the Imperial College, London, there securing his Ph.D. He worked particularly on the morphological affinities of the Dermaptera." Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 21:39, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Oh, great. thanks! Circeus (talk) 22:23, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Also: I can't believe I overlooked that someone had already ferreted the info at Wikidata ><;;; Circeus (talk) 22:24, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Quick update to Template:Access[edit]

I have removed the "green" option from {{Access}} (it now does the same thing as "open") and added a "broken" option instead, which generates a standard formatting for those DOIs (I assumed they will all be DOIs) that are given in the source but not actually functional: [nonfunctional] Broken access. Reference templates with this option will feed into Category:Reference templates with broken identifiers. Circeus (talk) 15:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)


Nice that all of == References == have been changed to =={{int:References}}==. But there's also a lot of pages where it was just put as == Reference == (singular!), and these have escaped the bot and need converting to =={{int:References}}== (plural!) too - can someone set a bot to do this, please? Thanks! - MPF (talk) 15:22, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I've noticed some of those myself. If someone has a bot that can do it, I can make a list with the help of some special:search voodoo stuff. Circeus (talk) 16:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I do not know if you looked, but you may have a similar issue with synonymy, synonyms etc. May want to check that one too. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 16:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I agree about the synonym/synonymy detail – most likely there are several hundreds of those, if not more. They too should both be changed into plural ==={{int:Synonyms}}===. The same goes for any representation of the Primary references, Additional references, Links, Publications, and Vernacular names paragraph headings that may be left behind in singular. I'm sure KoehlBot can handle this with ease, if @Dan Koehl is up for it. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC).
Yes, no problem, but please give me some days... :) Dan Koehl (talk) 19:17, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Sure thing! Symbol thumbs up.svg Here's a legend, of sorts, split between the two paragraph levels:

==Publication==               =={{int:Publications}}==
==Reference==                 =={{int:References}}==
==Vernacular name==           =={{int:Vernacular names}}==
===Synonym===                 ==={{int:Synonyms}}===
===Synonymy===                ==={{int:Synonyms}}===
===Primary reference===       ==={{int:Primary references}}===
===Additional reference===    ==={{int:Additional references}}===
===Link===                    ==={{int:Links}}===

And please remember that contrary to the others, Taxonavigation should still be written in singular number. ;-) Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:40, 4 November 2019 (UTC).

Thanks! Though I'd definitely recommend ==={{int:Synonymy}}=== rather than ==={{int:Synonyms}}===; 'Synonymy' is in my experience the usual in printed works. And also Latin Typus rather than English Type species. - MPF (talk) 22:24, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I have to agree that ==={{int:Synonymy}}=== is the more accurate term, as it implies a formal synonymy per the various codes. cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:35, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I second both MPF's and Scott's opinion here, however at the moment ==={{int:Synonyms}}=== is the format listed in MediaWiki:Edittools hence used by a lot of users who still prefer to use the text editor over the visual mode editor (me included). If we decide to change the recommended format then we need to change it in Edittools as well, lest many users will continue to add the wrong term over and over again. That's an easy thing to do though. As for Typus/Type species I think it's a bit trickier. First of all they're not 100% equivalent, as "typus" is closer to type specimen rather than type species. Also, "typus" is more broadly used in botany than zoology. Lastly, strictly speaking "type species" only denotes nominal species that are the name-bearing type of a nominal genus or subgenus. So if we chose to continue using "type species" we should introduce "type genus" as well, however as MPF indicates that doesn't play well with our efforts to keep Wikispecies language neutral. Also, adding more and more terms to our preferred format is counterproductive. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 23:38, 4 November 2019 (UTC).
@Dan Koehl: STOP to reflect a moment before starting a bot !!!! Definitely don't change "Synonymy" to "synonyms" !! And don't change "Type species" to "Typus" !! And what is this mania with the int template. Users who don't understand "References" or "publications" in English definitely won't be interested or benefit in using WS. Mariusm (talk) 16:17, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
The words synonyms and synonymy do not mean the same, one is just a list of names that refer to the same taxon (synonyms) the other is a formal list of names in order of priority per the principals of the code. We should be doing synonymy's on the pages, and it is an explicit term. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 17:58, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

This is why we do what we do[edit]

Major Step Backwards For Science: A Group Of Leading Biologists At Stanford Has Lost Their Big Notebook Full Of Elephant Facts. —Justin (koavf)TCM 17:46, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

You do know ClickHole is a satire of clickbait websites right? Just making sure. Monster Iestyn (talk) 17:54, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
The disclaimer at the bottom of the pages: "ClickHole uses invented names in all of its stories, except in cases where public figures are being satirized. Any other use of real names is accidental and coincidental." Circeus (talk) 18:02, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Community Wishlist 2020[edit]

Magic Wand Icon 229981 Color Flipped.svg

IFried (WMF) 19:30, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

ISSN 0424-7086[edit]

We say ISSN 0424-7086 has "Series title: Japanese journal of sanitary zoology", but reliable online sources say it is called "Medical entomology and zoology": [5], [6].

Before I swap it, are any of the sources using it from a "Japanese journal of sanitary zoology"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:37, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Doing my own digging on the journal, I've found out the following:
  • The title for the journal in Japanese seems to be 衛生動物 (Eisei dōbutsu). I'm not sure if that helps at all though, since it doesn't translate to either name exactly as far as I can tell. (but rather to "Sanitary animals" according to Google translate)
  • this seems to be the journal's current website, and there the English name is "Medical entomology and zoology".
  • this site calls it "Japanese journal of sanitary zoology"
  • this page on CiNii seems to give all three mentioned names as titles for the journal.
  • In the article Circeus linked a few discussions back as a resource for Japanese journals, the title is given as "Medical entomology and zoology".
I'd say go for "Medical entomology and zoology" since it seems to be the favoured name (at least in English), but I suspect maybe the English title used to be the other one in the past. But I can't back up this guess with anything concrete right now. Monster Iestyn (talk) 21:15, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
Oh, hang on, this page in the very first volume shows "Japanese journal of sanitary zoology" as the English name for the journal. So it does seem to have been the old English title then, curious. Monster Iestyn (talk) 21:38, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
The ISSN is indeed attached to the Japanese title, so they can change the official English title of the journal without triggering an (in theory) obligatory ISSN change. Circeus (talk) 23:13, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I merged the items on Wikidata and changed the labels, etc., there, an the details here, according to the above discussion. Thanks, all. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:16, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

ISSN 0070-7279 and Reichenbachia (journal)[edit]

Could these two pages be of the same journal? Monster Iestyn (talk) 17:17, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Most likely. ISSN 0070-7279 is listed at Wikispecies with a ZooBank ID, which give no additional information. However the OCLC ID listed on the Reichenbachia (journal) page is more helpful. It links to for example OCLC 2404786 and OCLC 488045596 in WorldCat which in addition refers ISSN 0070-7279 for both works (and also states Staatliches Museum für Tierkunde in Dresden as the publisher.) Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 17:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC).
In that case could someone merge the two? I already put up templates to indicate they need merging a few days ago. Monster Iestyn (talk) 17:09, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
Done. Also merged the wikidata items. Circeus (talk) 17:16, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Resolved.

Anyone uses this??[edit]

Came across an undocumented leftover of Stephen (yet another... sigh): {{Spt}}. This is clearly intended to be some sort of article-creation substitution template, but unless someone says they are actually using it (which I don't think is the case?), I'll delete it. Circeus (talk) 19:32, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

I do not, so I agree to delete it. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 20:18, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
No pages using it, so go ahead and delete - MPF (talk) 20:35, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Good riddance I say. Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 20:53, 5 November 2019 (UTC).

(I mean, I know no pages use it, because it's intended to be substituted (like {{Reftemp}}), and that's why I'm asking so I don't get angry messages about it later.) Circeus (talk) 22:25, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

The format it is using is outdated anyway. `Neferkheperre (talk)

ISSN 0003-4428/27[edit]

I have a feeling these subpages of ISSN pages are probably controversial in the first place due to who made them among other reasons, but this one seems particularly useless, since it has nothing of note at all in it. In addition, based on available info I could find online, I think Annales entomologici fennici (ISSN 0003-4428) stopped in 1989 and was succeeded by Entomologica Fennica (ISSN 0785-8760) in 1990, and it looks like the two have been confused here. In other words, this page is for a volume that actually belongs to another ISSN?! So could someone delete it perhaps, if that's not a problem?

Likewise the "contents" list at ISSN 0003-4428 should be removed too for the same reasons, but that's easy to do by comparison. Monster Iestyn (talk) 22:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, these were 100% a project of disgraced user Stephen Thorpe (who had a tendency to use Wikispecies as his own personal bibliographical database). Personally, I would happily do away with them as special:whatlinkshere can much more easily list all reference templates that are from a given publication. Listing templates is useful for books and multivolume works, not so much for periodicals IMO. Circeus (talk) 22:28, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
I agree, there would be literally hundreds or thousands of them listed for megajournals like Zootaxa (there probably are already come to think of it). But for now, I came here just to ask if something could be done about the page in the title, since it was a mistake even on Stephen's part to make it in the first place, if he did mix up the two periodicals like I suspect. Monster Iestyn (talk) 01:38, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Oh no. I firmly believed he was fully intent on filling it. It was created during a brief period when Stephen was unblocked in 2016, but he was reblocked like 2 days after creating that page. Circeus (talk) 03:53, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
...perhaps I've explained things a bit confusingly, my fault for that. What I was trying to say was, as well as being completely empty (regardless of whether it would have been filled in later or not), it's also for the wrong periodical in the first place I'm pretty sure. Monster Iestyn (talk) 05:17, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Oh, I did not pay attention to that. Circeus (talk) 16:59, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

New Coccoloba[edit]

Coccoloba gigantifolia from Brazil. Leaves up to 2½ metres long and 1.4 metres wide 😱😱 I wonder how many standard herbarium sheets one of those would fill 😂 Article here; photos cc-by if anyone want to add them at Commons as well. - MPF (talk) 15:02, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Check of Rosibot errors in replacing "March"[edit]

Today, Rosbot replaces March by {{int:March}}. Even if "March" is part of a name, e.g. Marchantiophyta, Marchese Saverio, Spencer Le Marchant Moore... I have asked User talk:Rosibot for stopping the bot, but there was no answer. So I have just blocked the bot for 2 hours. Please check all today "March" replacements of your watchlist, or at Special:Contributions/Rosibot. --Thiotrix (talk) 17:52, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I had a similar incident with "January", where even the "January" in an article title was replaced with {{int:January}}. Monster Iestyn (talk) 20:14, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure any month names should be auto-internationalised in any way...

As an aside on this - but probably just as important - I looked at a random example of these bot changes, and it showed up a major example of bad practice: date citation as 'Monthname DD, YYYY'. A format only used by one country, and confusing to (and often detested by) people in 190 others. Fails our internationalism commitments very badly. These date citations all need to be converted to ISO standard YYYY-MM-DD, as they are at e.g. Commons. Should be possible for a robot to do this? - MPF (talk) 21:18, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

What is wrong with DD Monthname YYYY. i think virtually all of date notes are in that format. Neferkheperre (talk) 21:40, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
It's illogical, and out of order. Units should be in order largest to smallest, or smallest to largest, not disorderly middle-small-large. It's like citing a length as 2 metres, 23 millimetres and 5 kilometres. Or in archaic nonsense, 2 feet 5 inches and 27 miles. Utterly silly, if you stop to think about it. - MPF (talk) 23:12, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
I am from the US, but still agree with using ISO standard for dates. Using the ISO standard eliminates the need for other forms of internationalization. Best practice would be to include ISO dates inside a template, giving the possibility that a user could set Preferences for a specific date format, and for people from countries that use a different calendar to make use of the dates as well. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:32, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

The bot had started again, so I've re-blocked, indefinitely. The block an be lifted by any admin once the bot operator undertakes satisfactorily to modify its behaviour. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

  1. because there is disagreement, I will no longer continue to internationalize for months until there is agreement.
  2. If you agree on the need to abolish this internationalization, I can do so. --Rosibot alias--Rosičák (talk) 14:10, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
I agree with blocking Rosbot. Internationalizing the months of year seems to me an overkill. The errors of this bot are way beyond what we can tolerate. If we unblock, the exact premises of this bot must be specified and agreed upon in a poll! Mariusm (talk) 16:09, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

The results of this bot are absurd! Take for example Amazophrynella teko where the sentance:

  • coll. by A. Fouquet and P. Nunes between 20 and 24 March 2015

was "internationalized" to:

  • coll. by A. Fouquet and P. Nunes between 20 and 24 {{int:March}} 2015

This is ridiculous! Are we going to int every single word in this sentance or what? I propose to rollback all the months int. Mariusm (talk) 16:35, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Orphans?! Andyboorman (talk) 18:28, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I put ashes on my head. If you unlock the shoe, it removes the template from January, February, March.--Rosičák (talk) 16:43, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
As Rosičák promises to undo the replacements of January, February, March, I have now unblocked his bot. Kind regards, --Thiotrix (talk) 19:48, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
@Rosičák: Thanks for removing the months' templates. Before resuming the int insertions, please inform us of the phrases/words you intend to address, so that we get a chance to evaluate the necessity of the changes. I understand the mandate you have as a bot is to only handle paragraph headings. Am I right? Mariusm (talk) 10:10, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
For something useful, the == Reference == → =={{int:References}}== still needs working on! - MPF (talk) 13:59, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Translated reference template?[edit]

I came across a reference template that is translated for some reason. Is this normal? Is this desirable in any way or form? Circeus (talk) 01:28, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

I think not. I'll be happy to delete the translations. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:48, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
The answer is no! Sometimes, when the article is in a language other than English, the English translation can be added in square brackets, provided it appears in the article. Mariusm (talk) 17:17, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: well as it happens I'm not a translation admins and can't touch these subpages. I didn't even know translation amdins had powers regular admins don't have. Circeus (talk) 21:43, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
Hmm. I'm not impressed to find that there are pages that admins can't delete. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:08, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Out of curiosity I checked I cannot delete it either, I do think that someone besides a translation admin should be able to delete these pages. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 15:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
How a translatable page is identified? I edited the template and left only the usual data, but still it's recognized as a translatable page. Can @Tommy Kronkvist: please delete the page? Mariusm (talk) 17:25, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
That's why I checked both Tommy and I are Crats, not admins. I doubt either of us can delete it, though Tommy is also a translation admin. I think someone besides a translation admin should be able to delete these pages if it is necessary. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 18:05, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
I'd wager once <languages/> or <translate> tags have been used, the page remains marked as translatable, though how to reverse that I have no idea. Circeus (talk) 18:24, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Allurus Förster[edit]

Should Allurus Förster be moved to Allurus (Förster)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:45, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Looking at the disamb page the two other names are not valid and are only redirects, the second one also to the wrong genus as Allinectes = Careproctus. So if we want the disamb page to function for two genera that are invalid I guess so yes. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 18:02, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Better will move on Allurus, which is the main and nomenclature meaning --Rosičák (talk) 18:14, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Agree, unless the homonyms are both valid (e.g. a plant and an animal), the valid name should be the main page (Allurus, here), and with invalid homonyms relegated to a disambig page - MPF (talk) 09:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
I absolutely agree with MPF: the valid name should be the main page therefor Allurus Förster should be moved to Allurus. There are literally thousands of invalid preoccupied genera names, and if we make a disambig for each case it would result in chaos. Mariusm (talk) 16:07, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and done this; the old Allurus disambig page is now Allurus (disambiguation), and the wasp genus to Allurus - MPF (talk) 00:49, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

indexing papers by journal/issues[edit]

This was one of Stho002's old practices, and far as I know, no one has bothered with it since because it's too much trouble for too little reward. I've notices that @MILEPRI: has started doing it too, and before they start going down a prossibly fruitless (and endless) path, I think we ought to have a full discussion about it. This is NOT an indictment of Milepri's actions, just an excuse to initiate the topic as it was on my mind from being recently talked above (and part of many things to talk about toward writing a full and proper manual of style).

Should templates for the papers from a journal be listed at all on that journal's ISSN page or subpages of it?

Personally I strongly inclines toward "no". Circeus (talk) 18:31, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Personally I see no value in it, this is not something that will be used and hence is a waste of time and resources better used for creating species accounts etc. So I agree with a firm no. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 19:34, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Add me to the no side of the debate. Andyboorman (talk) 20:50, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
"no" too. Burmeister (talk) 21:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
No for me. I have been noticing Thorpe's tendency with Zootaxa citations, and I have not followed it. Thus, Zootaxa's entries are 4 years behind. regular reference citations are quite sufficient. Neferkheperre (talk) 03:17, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
On a tangentially related note, one thing I have been doing is linking reference templates I create here from the relevant item on Wikidata (such as d:Q45339190). Don't know if that's standard, but seems like it would help eventually with WikiCite. Jarnsax (talk) 05:24, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
It's been very awkward on the Wikidata side because twice a property linking the template to the work has been shot down. So some work can be linked template to work, but many more (e.g. Flora Aegyptiaco-Arabica) can't because there is an extant work page that is used to link instead. Circeus (talk) 06:22, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
An hefty NO to journal indexing. It's just a waste of time. Mariusm (talk) 16:11, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
No. Lot of priority work to be done.--Hector Bottai (talk) 00:50, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Internationalizing - what are the limits?[edit]

I'm observing that @Rosičák: (with Rosibot) is int-ing presently "Native distribution areas". This is a paragraph heading, so this is ok. But what about Holotype, Type locality' and type species for example, which he already int-ed? I very much prefer Holotypus, Locus typicus and Typus generis to translating these terms. On top of this these are not paragraph heading, and therefore not within the mandate which Rosibot received when getting permission. I would certainly block Rosibot if he breaches his limits again. The excessive int-ing is cluttering the pages, distorting meanings and scientifically inaccurate. Mariusm (talk) 16:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Greetings, if you have a colleague feel that I have focused on the articles you have created, it is just a semblance. In fact, they contain a minimum of translation templates and are therefore added.
I mentioned this fact in the user discussion 30.10.2019 here Such preventive suing is not conducive to good humor, and it would certainly be better to look at it biasedly, and above all to assume goodwill.--Rosičák (talk) 17:07, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm: As for the preferred translations you provide above. It is possible to create such translations on this page (does not exist yet) and set the appropriate language (Latin) on the personal settings interface.--Rosičák (talk) 17:31, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi @Rosičák: - could you please set your bot to change == Reference == (singular!) to =={{int:References}}== (standard plural). There are lots of these, and it would be very useful to get this done! Thanks :-) - MPF (talk) 00:57, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
@Rosičák: I certainly don't doubt your good will. What I doubt is your judgement on what to translate and what not to. Holotype is one of the words which does't need translating. It's not about my personal preferences and not about what appears on my screen. It's a global concern about translating what doesn't need translation. Mariusm (talk) 16:21, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Author citation[edit]

Hello, I would want a little confirmation. If the original publication of a name is Gorgonia (Pterogorgia) gracilis Verrill, 1868: 359, shouldn't be the name Gorgonia gracilis (Verrill, 1868) quoted without brackets?

I ask because a few days ago I asked WoRMS that they fix this name that was wrongly quoted as Pterogorgia(Gorgonia) gracilis Verrill, 1868; they did it, very fine. But I also asked that they therefore remove the brackets for Gorgonia gracilis (Verrill, 1868), however they did not that last thing. Before I raise them again, I would like your opinion, would it be an oversight on their part or I missed something? Regards, Christian Ferrer (talk) 17:24, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Article 51 (or specifically 51.3) seems to be the relevant part of the ICZN code for this. As far as I'm aware, it doesn't look like it should be quoted with parentheses around the author or date at all, so you are correct I think. Monster Iestyn (talk) 18:00, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Ok, thanks you, I just send them a mail. Christian Ferrer (talk) 18:26, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi Christian, if the name was published as "Gorgonia (Pterogorgia) gracilis" by Verrill in 1868, it can be legitimately cited both as Gorgonia (Pterogorgia) gracilis Verrill, 1868 and as Gorgonia gracilis Verrill, 1868 - subgenus inclusion is optional. The only time the authorship would be cited in parentheses, i.e. "(Verrill, 1868)" would be if the species is moved to a different genus than Gorgonia, which would be a subjective taxonomic judgement by a subsequent worker, if any (and subject to "community acceptance", whatever that means). Cheers Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 20:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks you, they have fixed it. Christian Ferrer (talk) 12:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

new maintenance category: Category:References published ahead of print[edit]

I.e. "periodically these references should be checked so the full and proper reference can be put in." Circeus (talk) 19:02, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Something's very strange here... of the 40 or so references currently placed in this category (as of writing), only 3 are from this year (including the two I added today myself). 31 of the rest are from 2014, and the other 6 of course from other years, the oldest few being from 2013. What's going on here, have these publications really been waiting for a print version for up to 6 years? Monster Iestyn (talk) 01:38, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
The wordings I searched found a lot of stuff from Stephen, which I presume is from before he got banned in 2014. I still have to go through them to actually update them as/if necessary. Circeus (talk) 02:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Oh, no wonder then. Monster Iestyn (talk) 02:24, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
All those I've checked (about a dozen) have been published, so I've updated them accordingly. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:32, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Now if you could only do it in the style in use instead of generating more work for us, that would be appreciated. Circeus (talk) 13:48, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Feel free not to do any such work, since you like me, are a volunteer. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
And feel free to avoid doing edits that do more harm than good. Circeus (talk) 13:56, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
You know where Wikispecies:Administrators' Noticeboard is, right? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:58, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
I am, but I don't need to talk to other admins. I need to tell you to not remove things from this category that plainly belong there, and it's not my problem if you are here initiating the discussion by boasting about it. Circeus (talk) 14:00, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Sorry to butt in. However, most of the templates may have been created before the paper was in publication, but now this is just ancient history, as the template and its doi link to a published paper not a pre-print. nom. superfl.? Andyboorman (talk) 14:19, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Naah, the doi doesn't change, just the publication information gets tacked onto the article when the paper version is issued (with the "online date" still displayed). Same principle as Online first versions of Taxon articles. I dunno how exactly it works for dating under the ICZN, though as I am not familiar with the details of epub ahead of print under it. Circeus (talk) 14:24, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
I've attempted to look into that exact issue myself recently, and according to some it's actually somewhat unclear, at least going by this article I found for instance:
The same article also seems to give a list of which sites' epub-ahead-of-print cases are available or not. However, I don't know if this particular article is up-to-date anymore; it lists Oxford University Press's "Advance Articles" as unavailable, but I recently found a journal on it (Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society specifically) that states they comply with ICZN rules even for "Advance Articles" in their Author Guidelines page. Monster Iestyn (talk) 16:17, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Papers with pages in Wikispecies, not linked in Wikidata[edit]

I've raised on Wikidata the matter of Wikispecies pages about scientific papers, which are not linked to Wikidata: here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:13, 13 November 2019 (UTC)


Who can help with upload photos to commons, though the versions in Narakusumo et al. might require some cropping and removal of the figure number to achieve a look mimicking that of the other paper. PeterR (talk) 13:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

We can not infringe copyright, so make sure the legal niceties are covered first. Andyboorman (talk) 14:21, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Isn't zookeys material usually kosher? I mean, there was a big fanfare of "collaboration" announced a long time ago, but far as I know, the work was always 100% upon us in practice. Circeus (talk) 14:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
    • I don't know. I found the picture by Trigonopterus acuminatus also from ZooKeys. So I have over the hundred other foto's from Trigonopterus species.PeterR (talk) 16:44, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  •  Comment: I currently uploads images from Zookeys, but there is a lot of work, and I have to be methodical. I'm currently on the year 2018, and have done only a little part of it (therefore I will not begin the year 2019 for now). If someone, who is reading this, wants to upload images, please create each time a category for each articles that contains the images, and links it to Wikidata, in order that the other potential uploaders be aware that the images are already transfered, and in order to be able to find easily the images, of course. Example c:Category:Media from Fahri et al. 2018 - 10.3897/zookeys.805.24834 linked to Q60049035 linked to {{Fahri et al., 2018}}. I don't think that was done in the past, and IMO it's a pity. Regards, Christian Ferrer (talk) 17:11, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Note that the fact to give free licenses for the articles is already a signifiant good part of that colaboration. IMO it is up to the Wikimedia volonteers to upload the images, I don't see why it should be otherwise, though I know very well that it is manually a very very big job. We would need a BOT for that, and sadly the BOT that was doing this have been blocked in Commons a few years ago because it uploaded duplicates (thing that would not happens if the images were sorted by article as I suggected above). Sadly again, no one have fixed the BOT, I currently manually generate XML files to batch uplads the files, maybe I should contact Zookeys to see if they can provide some Darwin Core Archive, or .CSV files, or something similar that will help me to generate more easily the XML files needed for the batch uploads. Christian Ferrer (talk) 18:08, 13 November 2019 (UTC)