Wikispecies:Village Pump

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Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecies. This page is a place to ask questions or discuss the project. If you need an admin, please see the Administrators' Noticeboard. If you need to solicit feedback, see Request for Comment. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~ or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar). Use the Wikispecies IRC channel for real-time chat.

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Greek reference template[edit]

Could someone with knowledge of both the Greek language and Wikispecies' reference templates + our naming scheme take a look at this template, please: {{R:PafilhsValakos}}. Thanks in advance, Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 18:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC).

Can I get help with the scope of wikispecies stubs[edit]

Hello! I recently wrote a section for Bunyavirales modeled after a section for Mononegavirales on the main Wikipedia. It was removed for being out of scope. I don't think I have a good handle on what the scope of wikispecies stubs. Could someone explain that to me? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jcoleh7 (talkcontribs) 19:55, 23 October 2017 (UTC).

@Jcoleh7: Hi, your edition was out of scope as the taxon pages here do not need to be accompanied by a description (for that are their respective Wikipedia articles). Regards. —Alvaro Molina ( - ) 19:55, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Minowa & Garraffoni, 2017[edit]

Please can someone resolve:

which appear to refer to different works; respectively:

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:34, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
These should be OK but they need doi and so on.

Respectively:

Andyboorman (talk) 10:40, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Bot-generated list based on Wikidata[edit]

I came across the page nl:gebruiker:bdijkstra/Wikidata/Doublures, and thought it would be useful to have such a list to identify duplicated pages as discussed in the section above: Varanus duplicates.

If it is OK, we could create a page titled Wikispecies:Duplicated pages for example, import or copy the templates en:Template:Wikidata list and en:Template:Wikidata list end, and ask Magnus Manske to set ListeriaBot up on Wikispecies. Korg (talk) 13:20, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

I think this sounds like an excellent idea. Dan Koehl (talk) 04:45, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Agreed Andyboorman (talk) 08:12, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
I agree. Duplicated pages exist, and are rather common. I find them from time to time, and solve them. Setting up this page would allow us to use free time to address these duplicates. Neferkheperre (talk) 13:08, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
I agree as well – such a page would really be helpful. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 22:50, 28 October 2017 (UTC).
The templates {{Wikidata list}} and {{Wikidata list end}} are now imported. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk),20:50, 1 November 2017 (UTC).
Thank you! I've submitted a feature request on Bitbucket. Korg (talk) 23:14, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Include species description[edit]

I'm suggesting to include species description (identification key and description of holotype) for reptile species on species.wikimedia.org. I'd appreciate feedback regarding this.

HenningLar (talk) 07:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Boraginales and Boranginaceae another conundrum[edit]

Hello botanists. Since late 2016, there is now a distinct split in taxonomic opinion as regards the circumscription of Boraginales and subsequently Boraginaceae. Basically {{APG, 2016}} hold firmly and consensually to a monotypic Boraginales with a single family Boraginaceae s.l. , whereas Boraginales Working Group {BWG) proposed Boraginaceae s.s. with an additional 10 families in the order, {{Luebert et al., 2016}}. WS, at the moment still follows a largely traditional circumscription based upon Boraginaceae s.l., but I have made a few edits including; templating and adding references, whereby changes can be made either way. Most literature added after the publication of these two papers follow Leubert et al. (2016), but there again the authors are members of this group. I think we should more or less suspend editing on this group for a few more months at least until it is clearer what direction the wider botanic community are most happy with. Again this problem highlights a weakness in WS and Wikis in general. Thoughts anyone? Andyboorman (talk) 19:36, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Since we are not an actual database, there's absolutely nothing preventing from reflecting this sort of disagreement in the article with the appropriate warning about it and a version of the Taxonavigation that forks at the appropriate levels to reflect that there are two competing versions. At least that's what my thought went toward before I left (and I'm well aware the inertia around here would play against this idea very much, but on the technical side there is genuinely nothing against it.). Circeus (talk) 16:37, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
Probably there is no need for a hurry now. Anyway, I would not call the APG approach "traditional". Traditionally, Boraginaceae and Hydrophyllaceae were separated for a long time, as well as the parasitic Lennoaceae. So, this new approach by the Boraginales Working Group implements only the necessary splits, in order to rescue the traditional families by making their core concept monophyletic. --Franz Xaver (talk) 07:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Participate in Dispute Resolution Focus Group[edit]

The Harvard Negotiation & Mediation Clinical Program is working with the Wikimedia Foundation to help communities develop tools to resolve disputes. You are invited to participate in a focus group aimed at identifying needs and developing possible solutions through collaborative design thinking.

If you are interested in participating, please add your name to the signup list on the Meta-Wiki page.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn from the Wikimedia community. We value all of your opinions and look forward to hearing from you. JosephNegotiation (talk) 22:41, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Pongo[edit]

A new species of Pongo: original paper and sciencenews press release. I've not added it [yet], but I guess people are going to expect to find it here. - MPF (talk) 22:54, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. By the way, do you happen to know which "Bilberg" is the author of the Pongo synonym Macrobates Bilberg, 1828? –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 08:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC).
This was Gustav Johan Billberg (1772–1844) and the book is Synopsis faunae Scandinaviae. tom. 1, pars 1. Mammalia. See BHL Mariusm (talk) 09:23, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
@MPF, Mariusm: Thank you both for the information! I have now created the Pongo tapanuliensis page. Contrary to our naming conventions I named the reference template as {{Nater et al., 2017}}, using “et al.” rather than listing all of the almost 40 authors. I hope you are okay with that. Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 20:59, 5 November 2017 (UTC).
@Tommy Kronkvist: - thanks! I'm certainly OK with the 'et al.' (though I thought it was accepted practice where there are more than 3, or is it 5, authors??) - MPF (talk) 21:10, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Our convention there is 'et al.' for >3 authors. That is what I have been following since 2015 when I took over Zootaxa citations. My largest citation is 43 authors, about half were not listed here. Took most of one day for me. Neferkheperre (talk) 01:08, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Neferkheperre: template's name should include et al. when there are more then 3 authors, but its contents should include all the authors. (even if some of the authors remain in red links). I revised the template accordingly. Mariusm (talk) 05:07, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Correct, and this was all decided upon in a poll about the References format (clause 5) back in December 2015. I'm currently on the road not using a "proper" computer as I normally would, and adding all of those author names simply is too tedious on an iPad… Thanks Mariusm for your help entering them! Most of the author names in the reference template are currently red-linked, but I can create the missing author pages when I get home in a day or two. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 07:35, 6 November 2017 (UTC).

Dcoumenting page types[edit]

In order to enable better understanding of Wikispecies, I have started a page, listing the types of pages on the project: Wikispecies:Page types

Have I missed any? Without overloading it, are there more (or better) examples that should be included?

And would somebody like to mark it for translation, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:10, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

What about taxonavigation templates? E.g. Template:Brycon. --Franz Xaver (talk) 14:43, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
This list is a good idea. The examples for species pages should be well referenced examples, one for animals and one for plants each, if possible with subspecies (to serve as good examples for new editors). Additionally we have disambiguation pages, both for taxa (e.g. Echinosporangium), and for authorities (e.g. Okamura). As these are both in Category:Disambiguation pages, maybe this category has to be split?. --Thiotrix (talk) 17:38, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
What about Reference templates pages? E.g. Template:Vieillot, 1816.--Hector Bottai (talk) 01:39, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Peniocereus viperinus[edit]

In the cited reference for Peniocereus viperinus (F.A.C.Weber) Kreuz., Verzeichnis Amer. Sukk. Rev. Syst. Kakteen 18. 1935, there is only the following information: "viperinus (Web. 1904) Klusáč. 1932" [1]. So the author might actually be Klusáč., possibly Karel Klusáček [2]. Does anyone know where to find the full reference for "Klusáč. 1932"? Thanks! Korg (talk) 20:02, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

I am not a Cacti expert, but there is a possible clue in here on p.318. Good hunting Andyboorman (talk) 20:31, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the link! I've emailed Pavel Pavlíček of the site https://www.cact.cz/ and he gave me another clue for the author Klusáč.: "Ing. A. Klusáček, Kounice near Český Brod, grower - Lobivia, Pilosocereus ...". The search continues... Korg (talk) 11:06, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
This is probably an ex name, with Klusac coining it outside a proper publication (e.g. in a letter). I investigated a similar issue over at wp: about a birn name. Circeus (talk) 16:48, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Interesting, thank you. If this is indeed the case, how should we write the name(s) of the author(s) of Peniocereus viperinus? Korg (talk) 23:32, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Unsolved mysteries[edit]

Are you aware of cases where there is no information about an author or a publication? If such cases exist, perhaps it would be interesting to list them (to advertise them so more people could help to solve them). Korg (talk) 11:06, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

There are several such cases so yes – good idea! I've recently created Category:Missing or unresolved author names – feel free to change or populate it if you like to. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 15:38, 9 November 2017 (UTC).
Thank you! Korg (talk) 23:32, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

strange automatic categorization[edit]

The taxon pages Thymus (Lamiaceae) and Thymus sect. Hyphodromi are automatically categorized into Category:Reference templates. Does anybody know why, and how this could be stopped? --Thiotrix (talk) 10:14, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

The category was outside the <noinclude>...</noinclude> tags in Template:LSP: [3]. Korg (talk) 10:27, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Thank you, --Thiotrix (talk) 10:41, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Community Wishlist[edit]

In case you glanced over the header, WMF is running its annual community wishlist survey. This is a great opportunity to ask for developer help to create tools that help Wikispecies grow. Anyone got ideas on improving our workflow (from navigation to creating articles to referencing)? OhanaUnitedTalk page 23:33, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

So nobody has an idea or suggestions for tools? OhanaUnitedTalk page 16:48, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
We need more templates for structuring page content, and more integration with Wikidata. Both of these things are within our gift as Wikispecies editors; and neither requires the kind of tools discussed at the above page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:37, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: There's a subpage for Wikidata related request and you can submit this suggestion there. What I'm thinking is to propose an illustrated Wikispecies Tree of Life, which draws on similar initiative in 2013. The renewed page can be done automatically updated every month or so. This can become an educational interface as there is demands for these interactive webpages. Thoughts? OhanaUnitedTalk page 18:28, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
"you can submit this suggestion there" Which suggestion? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Like the details of the Wikidata integration. OhanaUnitedTalk page 22:04, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
As I wrote just above "Both of these things are within our gift as Wikispecies editors; and neither requires the kind of tools discussed at the above page.". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Category:ISSN[edit]

Why are we manually maintaining Category:ISSN when we have software to do that for us? It is not being applied as a category, in the usual MediaWiki sense. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:41, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Good question. One reason might be that it's perhaps easier for a not-yet-Wikispecies-savvy user to find a publication if it is listed in plain text by title rather than by ISSN only. It's quite often the case that only the name of a publication is listed in (non Wikispecies) references, without ISSN (if any). Hence finding for example the Journal of the Georgia Entomological Society on the ISSN category page may be more convenient than first doing an online search to find the corresponding ISSN, and then look up the equivalent ISSN 0016-8238 page here at Wikispecies.
Apart form that my guess is that our current "manual" approach is an archaic praxis left over from the days of Wikispecies' youth, before Wikidata and other such helpful additions to MediaWiki even existed. (As an example, our ISSN category predates Wikidata by approximately two years.) –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 16:27, 12 November 2017 (UTC).
I think most people would find such pages by searching for the title, rather than looking on a "fake" category page they're unlikely to know exists (not least because it's not linked at the foot of the articles it contains). I'd also suggest that for every ISSN page there should be a redirect from the title (and so I've just turned what was your red link, blue). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:50, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
I very much agree that there should always be a redirect for every journal's title to their respective ISSN page, and over the years have been creating a whole bunch of such redirects myself. The problem with this system arises when a name of a journal is also a taxon name, in which case the taxon page of course takes precedence over the redirect. This also sometimes makes searching for journals by their title difficult: for instance a search for the scientific journals Austrobaileya (ISSN 0155-4131) or Sydowia (ISSN 0082-0598) will only show the taxon pages for the genera Austrobaileya and Sydowia, without mentioning the journals (except for the occasional use of disambiguation hatnotes, which are currently under (a sleepy) discussion. Listing the journals by name in the ISSN category is a crude and rather inefficient solution, but at least dodges that problem. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 20:03, 12 November 2017 (UTC).
In this case creating redirects from Austrobaileya (journal) and Sydowia (journal) to the respective ISSN pages should help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:09, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

I propose to replace the above page with a copy of User:Pigsonthewing/ISSN, which will be updated daily by a bot, drawing the contents from Wikidata. This will remove the need for manual updates, and ensure that there are no omissions - anything with an ISSN page on Wikispecies and an entry on Wikidata will be included. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:13, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Symbol support vote.svg Support. Good initiative. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 12:13, 14 November 2017 (UTC).
Symbol support vote.svg Support Burmeister (talk) 12:49, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
There are some (old) journals that don't have issn code, would not it be interesting to make a list for them too? Burmeister (talk) 13:00, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
I'd be happy to do so; but by what criteria? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:37, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
My suggestion: 1) Create a category for journals without issn, 2) Populate it manually, 3) Use the bot to create the list from the category data. I believe that it is possible to do it this way. Burmeister (talk) 21:15, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

The list is now at ISSN. Please look for errors or omissions, and fill in missing parameters on Wikidata. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:38, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Hancockia uncinata[edit]

Can someone please check the author of Hancockia uncinata, as queried in this edit? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:58, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

See p. 345. Author is given as M. Hesse. Neferkheperre (talk) 16:49, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Not to be confused, presumably, with M.Hesse, Q21515767, born 1943? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:57, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
It seems possible to me, that actually the author is the malacologist Paul Hesse and the "M." stands for "Monsieur" and does not represent a personal name. --Franz Xaver (talk) 19:31, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't think it's Paul Hesse (see Zum 70. Geburtstage von Paul Hesse!). --Succu (talk) 20:01, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Also, on several occasions the author is referred to as "Hesse." including the full stop, which at least in theory says it might be an abbreviation... –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 20:08, 12 November 2017 (UTC).

On WoRMS, the author is referred to as " Hesse, H."; I'll ask if they have more information and if it is a typo. On BEMON, there are two other authors with the surname Hesse: Charles Eugène Hesse and Edmond Hesse. It seems to be Charles-Eugène Hesse [4], according to this book. Korg (talk) 01:12, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

User:Franz Xaver is right: M. stands for "Monsieur". It's Charles-Eugène Hesse‎ and User:Umimmak made all the necessary edits to reflect this. Mariusm (talk) 07:13, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Wikidata apparently still needs to be fixed; I'm not sure how to change names for the entry someone made for "M. Hesse". (Perhaps things like authority pages, wikidata entries, etc shouldn't be made until the identity is fully known? It's easier to create once the details are known than fix everything later) Umimmak (talk) 13:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Wikidata is sorted, now. Thanks, everyone, for your help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:21, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

ISSN 2226-0773[edit]

Anyone can look at this with a little more intent? This journal looks very much like a humanities journal with low likelihood of having relevant content, plus it's not linked by any article and is the only contribution from its creator, so probability of it being some sort of linkspam seems nonnegligible. Circeus (talk) 13:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Just looking at random issue TOCs, it looks like something for humanities and teaching thereof. I clicked on its ZooBank entry, and 78 relevant taxonomic articles are cited. I would say to keep it, for now. Neferkheperre (talk) 15:01, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Keep it. See for example this article - it's a perfectly useful taxonomic article. Mariusm (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Mesostigmata[edit]

The Mesostigmata page is rather messy, with (possible) superfamiliae mixed up with ordines in the Taxonavigation section, and "et al." instead of complete lists of authors in the references section, and so forth. Is there an acarologist amongst us up for the task of cleaning it up, please? :) Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 01:08, 13 November 2017 (UTC).

According to Krantz & de Walter, 2009 : A Manual of Acarology. 3rd Edition, the classification includes 3 suborders and 6 cohorts. I've updated the page accordingly. Mariusm (talk) 06:44, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Commons category templates[edit]

I have modified {{Commons}} so that it calls values from Wikidata, where available. It can still be used with values entered here in Wikispecies, if needed.

Please check for any bugs or problematic edge-cases.

It is now possible to replace, say, {{Commons|Category:Actiniaria|Actiniaria}} with {{Commons}}, and we should consider having a bot do this in bulk.

We should also consider making {{Commons}} invisible, where there is no value on Wikidata (like we do for {{Authority control}}), so that we can apply it to every article, and let the software determine whether there is anything to display.

I see that we also have {{Commons category}}; can that be merged into {{Commons}}? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:45, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

I've tried, without success, to make {{Commons}} a wrapper for {{Commons category}}; can anyone improve on my (self-reverted) edits there?
I've also created a test page, for both templates, at Template:Commons/Testcases. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: I just did this and checked some "What links here" and it seemed to work. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:25, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
@Koavf: Thank you. Unfortunately that doesn't work. In the example given above, it would try to link to "Commons:Category:Category:Actiniaria". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:08, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

I always use simply {{Commonscat}}, without any further embellishment. Granted it looks slightly scatological, but it takes you straight to the category at Commons, which is the best place to aim for. - MPF (talk) 01:10, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

BPH[edit]

ISSN 0210-5160 says one of the journal's short names was issued by "BPH". I've searched here and on Wikipedia, but can find no relevant organisation with those initials. What do they stand for? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:20, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Maybe this ??? Burmeister (talk) 12:52, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Indeed see here as an example of a BPH (Botanico-Periodicum-Huntianum) number. Andyboorman (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out that abbreviation listed in IPNI are usually the same as the BPH ones, but BPH encompasses a great many more publications than what is found in IPNI (which only has ones with new names). BPH abbreviations for non-IPNI publications are commonly used in citations, both long and short forms. Circeus (talk) 12:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Possible duplicate journals[edit]

We have ISSN 1217-8837, and ISSN 0001-7264, each representing Acta Zoologica Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae. Can these be merged?

Likewise, ISSN 2299-6060 and ISSN 0065-1710 for Acta zoologica cracoviensia. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:52, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Also ISSN 0365-7000 and ISSN 0001-3943. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:50, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Langauge of journal titles[edit]

A reminder that journal titles (and other text not in English) should be marked up using {{lang}}, like this; using the relevant ISO code for the language (which can be found in the infobox on the en.Wikipedia article about the language, if needed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:04, 15 November 2017 (UTC)