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Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecies. This page is a place to ask questions or discuss the project. If you need an admin, please see the Administrators' Noticeboard. If you need to solicit feedback, see Request for Comment. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~ or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar). Use the Wikispecies IRC channel for real-time chat.

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Many duplicate pages[edit]

Here's some worrying reading: User:MatSuBot/Duplicates lists a total of 2354 duplicate pages, mainly involving subgenera pages. Some of them might be "false positives", but still. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 13:16, 22 July 2018 (UTC).

I have dealt with some that concerned my edits and expertise, but it seems most involve @PeterR:'s work. Not sure I can help here. Good bot though. Cheers Andyboorman (talk) 20:04, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
These are going to have to be carefully fixed. I looked at one in detail Oroncus (Arctoroncus) weigerti to see what is happening, the page Oroncus weigerti has better info even though the page Oroncus (Arctoroncus) weigerti is correctly named. So some combining of info is going to have to be done. One question didn't we have a discussion and determine the appropriate way to handle subgenera name spaces? I personally prefer the subgenus to be left out of the namespace, The reason being is that subgenera are not compulsory under the code and often not known by users, so they will search for Genus + Species not Genus (Subgenus) + species. Of course the subgenus would be included in the taxnav section. In the above example I would set Oroncus (Arctoroncus) weigerti to redirect to Oroncus weigerti and ensure the taxnav reflected the existence of a subgenus. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 23:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
I too prefer to exlude the subgenera from the species page names, but they must of course be included in the Taxonavigation sections. By they way there are several cases that are more complex than Scott's Oroncus example, since they not only include a subgenus but a subspecies as well. For example Troides (Ripponia) hypolitus sangirensis i.e. Troides hypolitus sangirensis. Also many of those lack the proper formatting templates in the Taxonavigation sections, e.g. {{sgssps}} or (less preferable) {{sgssp}}. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 02:07, 23 July 2018 (UTC).
Yeah the one above is a real mess actually, once you start looking through the subgenera etc, no agreement on which species belong to which subgenus etc. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 02:47, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I've dealt with a few of the more obvious ones, like the genus page Masaakia TakeuchiMasaakia (Takeuchi) and the scientific journal Diagnoses Plantarum Orientalium novarumDiagnoses Plantarum Orientalium Novarum. However some are odd. For instance the template {{Nowrap}} is considered a duplicate of the similar but not identical {{Nobr}}. I haven't used either one of them in a while, but in my experience sometimes only one of them renders the desired effect. And it's not the same one every time, presumably depending on surrounding syntax and code. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 16:47, 23 July 2018 (UTC).

I will sort out the Oroncus examples tonight. Been short on time. But I have looked at the correct nomenclature so know what I need to do. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:03, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
As an aside, just letting you know that a genus authority in parentheses is incorrect in zoology (in botany, parentheses are legitimate where they indicate a change of rank e.g. genus originally a subgenus, tribe etc.; in zoology this does not apply; parentheses are however common at species level, for a different reason i.e. changed genus assignment from the original). Thus Masaakia (Takeuchi) should read Masaakia Takeuchi, not the other way around. If in doubt see e.g. . Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 07:25, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
BTW The date for Masaakia is 1950, see Tony 1212 (talk) 07:29, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
@Faendalimas: Thanks. I'll try to help out with the other genera, but I'm also pressed for time right now.
@Tony 1212: Hi, and thank you for your notes. In this case it is only the page name that says "Masaakia (Takeuchi)" with parenthesis and I believe this is the preferred naming scheme on Wikispecies no matter whether the page regards a taxon, an author, a publication, or something else. However within the actual taxon pages the designation has always been "Masaakia Takeuchi" without parenthesis, and always stating 1950 as the year of publication. This is true for all versions of both the current Masaakia (Takeuchi) (four edits in 2018, see the revision history) as well as all versions of the now deleted Masaakia Takeuchi (eleven edits 2009–2018, but since it's a deleted page the revision history is only available for admins.)
–Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 08:31, 24 July 2018 (UTC).
Thanks Tommy, my mistake. I thought the taxon name was the main name presented in bold at the top, evidently not... Now I see it is given lower in the page. However it is confusing to the reader (this one at least). All the best - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 09:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

In plants, this bot has exposed a couple of additional problems. For example, Saponaria bellidifolia Sm. - this seems to an older taxon page name format linked to a disambig page Saponaria bellidifolia, this procedure can be dealt with in other ways leaving the main taxon page named as one would expect. However, there are also taxonomic problems, for example in the putative hybrid Salix species, such as Salix × subalpina and Salix subalpina. The circumscription of these combinations is not straight forward and at the moment is based upon a single less reliable secondary source. In addition, most of these so called hybrids are based upon horticultural forms or selections. These will need a careful work through. Kind regards Andyboorman (talk) 18:54, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Circumscription of Salix[edit]

The bot above has highlighted a number of problems with our Salix taxon pages. Firstly, the presented infrageneric classification is out of date and no longer supported by recent research or many other up to date secondary sources. The generic circumscription has problems, but given that there are no other secondary sources that completely agree as to what species are accepted and those in synonymy. The list of nothospecies contains a mix of artificial and natural hybrids. In addition, some hybrids are accepted as straight species by some and not others, even the well known Crack Willow Salix fragilis or is it Salix x fragilis and I thought that one solved!. Conclusion, this genus has been a taxonomic nightmare for decades and still is and reading some current literature I can not see the Gordian Knot being unpicked anytime soon. Opinions anybody? Andyboorman (talk) 14:47, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

More precisely, which bot are you referring to? Writing "the bot above" in a new Village Pump thread (without stating the actual name of the bot) can sometimes lead to misunderstandings, since the different threads in the Pump are frequently and automatically moved to an archive, hence "disappear" from the page... :-) Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 09:37, 28 July 2018 (UTC).
Apologies I meant User:MatSuBot/Duplicates Andyboorman (talk) 11:11, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Please merge[edit]

Federico Philippi and Federico H.E. Philippi. --Magnus Manske (talk) 10:29, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Done. --Franz Xaver (talk) 13:19, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Drepanocarpus lunatus[edit]


It seems that ”Drepanocarpus lunatus (L.f.) G.Mey“ is a synonym of Machaerium lunatum. See

Currently neither is ”Drepanocarpus lunatus (L.f.) G.Mey“ available in the record of Machaerium lunatum. Neither has Drepanocarpus lunatus a wiki page that redirects to Machaerium lunatum.

If this information is correct, could someone (with more knowledge than me) adding this informations?

Best regards — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sommerluk (talkcontribs) 10:59, 30 July 2018‎.

Done. Best regards 17:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)Andyboorman (talk)

A.A. Thasun Amarasinghe[edit]

I have semi-protected A.A. Thasun Amarasinghe after an IP editor made good faith, but damaging, edits; which removed templated citations as well as adding new ones. I have also restored the templates, but kept and sorted the new data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:57, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

'In use' template[edit]

To help us avoid edit conflicts when working on long or complex pages, the template {{In use}} is now available. Please make use of it, mark it up for translation and, most importantly, respect its message if you encounter it in use. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:11, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Fritz Müller[edit]

We have Fritz Müller and Fritz Müller 1. What's the preferred method of disambiguation for these? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:44, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

In most cases I prefer "Author name (year–year)" since "Author name (scientific discipline)" doesn't always solve the problem – for instance the above authors are both zoologists. However in this particular case it seems the full name of the latter is Johann Friedrich Theodor Müller. Hence I suggest we move Fritz Müller 1 to Johann Friedrich Theodor Müller, which will dodge the problem entirely. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk)‚ 11:44, 2 August 2018 (UTC).
What about making your latter change, but also moving Fritz Müller to Friedrich Müller, and making Fritz Müller a disambiguation page? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
That's even better of course. I'm on it but the full process will take a while since there are about 50 taxon pages that needs to be "re-linked" to the new author pages, when created. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 13:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC).
 Done, including the Wikidata pages for disambiguation etc. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk)‚ 14:50, 2 August 2018 (UTC).

Sources on Wikidata[edit]

Magnus Manske has written a blog post about the work he is doing, to add details of papers cited on Wikispecies (and on two Wikipedias) to Wikidata. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)


The Wikidata bot d:User:Reinheitsgebot is linking the page Phenuiviridae to d:Q1010102, but that's not correct. Phenuiviridae are a new virus family (2016, published 2017). Instead Peribunyaviridae should be connected to d:Q1010102 (renamed from Bunyaviridae in 2016, published in 2017). But my correction on Wikidata was reverted by the bot.

On the bot's disc d:User_talk:Reinheitsgebot#Q1010102 I explained, why this connection is not correct, but without reaction. Any ideas, what to do now? --Murma174 (talk) 10:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Technically, the bot did not revert you; you removed the link (without, I note, adding another), and the bot re-added it. I also note that Peribunyaviridae is already linked to d:Q29001087. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:38, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
I added the correct link before, but that was reverted also (see history). I still don't know, how to clear the situation. --Murma174 (talk) 14:16, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

@Magnus Manske: Ping. Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 17:38, 7 August 2018 (UTC).

Closure proposal[edit]

meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikispecies Lojbanist (talk) 20:03, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

To clarify: this is a proposal to entirely close down the Wikispecies project. I urge everyone in the community to take part in the discussion. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 21:08, 7 August 2018 (UTC).
This proposal was speedy-closed. It was invalid and spurious. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:28, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

@Lojbanist: Why did you post this? Also, are you familiar with our efforts at translation/localization? —Justin (koavf)TCM 00:04, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Follow-up link, for future reference when this version of the Wikispecies VP is archived: Meta-Wiki: Proposals for closing projects. (See August 7, 2018: "Result: Proposal was speedily-rejected as inappropriate and disruptive.") –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 16:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC).

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 17:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC).

Template Molina, 1782[edit]

@Burmeister: @Neferkheperre:. This Template:Molina, 1782 was linked and indexed to a BHL file. Now, when you click at any of the more of 30 taxa using the template, all them are redirecting to the main page of the book at Biblioteca digital, for example: Athene cunicularia. The copy of the book is no longer at BHL, except the tittle (second one) who redirects to Biblioteca Digital. Does anyone have an idea how to fix it? Without having to rework all the 30+ taxa? --Hector Bottai (talk) 19:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

In so far as the species pages use {{BHL}} to generate the offending BHL links, no. A bot could easily just remove all instances of that templates on these pages, though. Converting those links to page links at the bibliotheca digitale, if that is what you wish to see, is (most likely) only possible manually (and speaking from experience, "30+" pages is really not that much editing to do when it's this straightforward). Circeus (talk) 20:50, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Problems in User:Knson2 edits[edit]

Please note that User:Knson2 is adding many cladi (plural of cladus) to the taxa templates, causing them to exceed the recursion depth limit of 40. See for example Eumaniraptora. Mariusm (talk) 10:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

What is our policy towards adding obscure or controversial cladi to the stem templates which affect thousands of pages? I think it must be forbidden without prior discussion, especially when these cladi are red-links. Mariusm (talk) 12:48, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
User:Knson2 was blocked for 3 days until an agreement is reached on this issue. Mariusm (talk) 12:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
I've added a link to this VP thread to the users talk page, for clarity and transparency. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 13:05, 12 August 2018 (UTC).
Knson2 has done a mess with many important templates. We must somehow revert all his contributions. Mariusm (talk) 15:15, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
Suggestions? I'm also concerned that the additions have no supporting citations. In plants, the rank and ending of the added taxa are completely unsupported, possibly arbitrary. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:32, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Not counting already deleted edits, the user has created a total of 7 new taxon pages and 48 Taxonavigation stem templates (most of them above familia rank). I could easily and swiftly delete all of them in one go, but sincerely feel we need to reach some sort of community consensus and agree upon a decision before I go ahead and do so. By the way I have already blocked User:Knson and User:Knson3, two verified sockpuppets. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 15:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC).

I have had a brief look through this editors work and would like to make a few points. The editor seems to be concentrating on cladi rather than taxa and WS is taxon based and Linnean. In plants we tolerate clades at a supraordinal level, but only when basically accepted by APGIV. Many of the cladi added are experimental and proposals, but probably not very useful for taxonomy and classification. The massive lists are confusing as well as exceeding the recursion depth and where they generate red links add to outstanding work. As has been pointed out there are no sources cited, so technically the pages are stubs and unverifiable. I would advise a rapid deletion of edits affecting important and key templates and unless there are good reasons for not doing so. However, outside plants I cannot comment on technical accuracy. Finally sockpuppetry is not tolerated here and so the contributor could be banned indefinitely. Kind regards Andyboorman (talk) 17:09, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
The two last mentioned user accounts are already indefinitely blocked: see Meta-Wikis Global Account Information for user Knson and Knson3, respectively.
One problem with the edits of Knson2 is that some of them includes redirects which in turn has been changed into other redirects, and so forth. See for example SAR supergroup (page history) and Sphingobacteria (page history). I haven't checked all of them thoroughly enough yet but potentially broken redirects and double redirects needs to be checked and mended before any more drastic measures are taken, if any. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 20:50, 12 August 2018 (UTC).
It's amazing: User:Knson2 managed to alter ALL WS pages (except for authors etc.) without anyone raising a red flag or asking any questions. We must be more vigilant towards such users. I made an effort to redo all his contributions. I recommend blocking him indefinitely (he's blocked now for 3 days). Mariusm (talk) 10:24, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I've made a note on User talk:Knson2#Obscure cladus about the very real risk of the block getting extended unless the user presents an explanation of their edits and intention. I have also taken the liberty to write protect the templates {{Animalia}}, {{Chromista}}, {{Fungi}}, {{Plantae}}, {{Protista}}, and {{Protozoa}} so that they no longer can be edited by new and unregistered users; in other words they can only be edited by registered users with at least either "confirmed" or "autoconfirmed" user rights. I figure this is okay, since the Taxonavigation templates for taxa as high as Regnum should very seldom need to be edited anyway? –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 03:14, 14 August 2018 (UTC).
The user account User:Knson2 is hereby indefinitely blocked as a result of persistent sock puppetry, together with the newly created User:Knson5. All edits by all related user accounts are currently being reverted. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 21:49, 14 August 2018 (UTC).
All edits by all known related user accounts are now reverted. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 22:34, 14 August 2018 (UTC).
back, as User:Knson6. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Contents section[edit]

Why has Araucariaceae a contents section but other Pinales do not? Any thoughts? Do we need this section? I cannot find a template for it anywhere, so any help would be appreciated. Best regards Andyboorman (talk) 13:27, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

What "contents section"? Please explain. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 13:58, 14 August 2018 (UTC).
Its gone! Very odd. Andyboorman (talk) 15:30, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Probably a temporary effect from the Knson template edits. The contents are suppressed through the high-level templates, but when that is broken, the ToC can resurface. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:34, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Yep, my thoughts as well. However by now server caches etc. should have been flushed, and things are back to normal. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 09:48, 15 August 2018 (UTC).

Two new useful templates[edit]

Hello. @RLJ: has produced two templates for use in the Reference Section of plant species. They are Template:Catol-WorldFerns and Template:Catol-ELPT for bryophytes. These compliment Template:Catol-Hassler useful for vascular plants. Best Regards and thanks to RLJ. Andyboorman (talk) 13:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for this valuable notification! –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 21:32, 16 August 2018 (UTC).

Same author?[edit]

Can someone check whether Jon Lewis and Jon A. Lewis are the same? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Circeus (talkcontribs) 20:34, 16 August 2018.

I've redirected Jon Lewis to Jon A. Lewis, since the "Jon Lewis" page is an orphan in respect to taxon-, reference- or other author pages.(links) In comparison several taxon-, author- and reference pages already links to "Jon A. Lewis".(links) I've also merged the two equivalent Wikidata pages. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 22:34, 16 August 2018 (UTC).