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Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecies. This page is a place to ask questions or discuss the project. If you need an admin, please see the Administrators' Noticeboard. If you need to solicit feedback, see Request for Comment. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~ or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar). Use the Wikispecies IRC channel for real-time chat.

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Consistancy across Wikipedia nomenclatural platforms[edit]

For instance: Wikipedia: Roccellaceae includes genus Opegrapha & — The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 19:03, 2 March 2018‎.

Category:Extinct or fossil species[edit]

I used this category for the first time. Doesn't look to me appropriate or at least, useful, to join under the same category a fossil extint millions of years ago with a known, described species, recently extint. There are only 110 pages under the category and should not be very difficult to split. But this is only my opinion. --Hector Bottai (talk) 23:01, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

The whole system with categories such as "Category:Extinct or fossil species" and "Category:Fossil species" etc is rather messy. We also have a Category:Fossil taxa which together with its sub-categories (including Category:Taxa by geologic formations...) is very big, and perhaps not very useful? And then of course we have Category:Extant species to "match" the extinct taxa. In my opinion all of Category:Name status categories and its sub-categories needs to be cleaned up. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 23:39, 25 March 2018 (UTC).
If people wish to use these categories they need to come to a consensus on what they mean. Technically fossil species is a subset of both extinct species and extant species, it is rarer in extant, but one example is Elseya lavarackorum. All it means is the taxon exists in the fossil record. It may still be living, or not. Extinct species is usually split into 3 subgroups in science. Recent Extinct, since 1600 A.D.; Historically Extinct, extinct during the rise of our species ie basically during the Holocene, and prehistorically extinct, extinct before the Holocene, and hence before our species. As I said before anyone can utilise these I suggest deciding how to use them, otherwise its just a mess. IUCN has refs on this. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 11:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Promoting Microbiology[edit]

Hello Wikispecies authors,
I'm trying to add a bit information on pages dealing with Bacteria or other Prokaryotes (or taxon authors). Some of you already helped me with understanding how templates work, thank you again. Burmeister created a template to format subspecies of Bacteria, because their taxonomy deviates from Plantae or Animalia. I added the information about the template already here: Templates#Taxon formatting templates and Help:Taxonavigation section#Templates for taxonavigation. Now I would like to add the International Code of Nomenclature of Prokaryotes (Manuscript Draft) respectively the International Code of Nomenclature of Bacteria to Help:General Wikispecies#Formatting rules, but thought that I should ask beforehand.
Kind regards, --A doubt (talk) 22:45, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this addition would be fine and thanks for your efforts in promoting this otherwise WS neglected section of Prokaryota. Mariusm (talk) 15:17, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Most missed articles[edit]

Wikispecies:Most missed articles was compiled in 2008. Does anyone have the means to update it, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:58, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

I can look in to it during the Easter holidays. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 11:09, 28 March 2018 (UTC).
Many are vernacular names, and wikispecies don't have the habit to create redirects of the vernacular names; is wright? so lion and others redirects created should be delete, or not ?! Burmeister (talk) 13:01, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
They cost nothing, and are clearly pages that people are looking for here. Why would we not assist our users to find the correct page? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:46, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
So we need create pages in all the languages?! And this will cost a lot. Vernaculars are not the scope in WS (my opinion). Burmeister (talk) 18:28, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Where do you get that idea from? It's got nothing to do with what I wrote. We are discussing Wikispecies:Most missed articles which is - as clearly stated at the top of that page - a list of (my emphasis) "Most often requested nonexistent articles per day ". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:24, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
From lion, cat, bearded dragon, yak, grizzly bear. Why created those redirects? all present in "most missed articles" Burmeister (talk) 19:53, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
You've just answered your own question. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:21, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Vernacular names are a minefield. There isn't a one-to-one relationship between vernacular names and taxa. Why have "cat" redirect to Felis and not Felis silvestris catus or Felidae? People searching for cat almost certainly want the domesticated subspecies, and if they do have a broader concept in mind, it's more likely the family than the genus. Plantdrew (talk) 14:25, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
I think that vernacular names are a bit of fluff, like pictures and most definitely not essential information on a taxon page. As Plantdrew says - a minefield. However, If they are over represented on "most missed articles" then it is another good reason for just getting rid of vernacular names. The information belongs quite rightly on WP and WD and so can be viewed on their links. Andyboorman (talk) 14:41, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
How do you propose to "get rid of" vernacular names from "most missed articles"? How would you propose to redirect someone searching Wikispecies for "cat" (or more importantly, a term that exists in more than one language) to a particular Wikipedia article? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:27, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Where a "most missed article" term applies to more than one taxon, especially of different ranks, it makes sense to direct users to the highest rank in the hierarchy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:27, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree the vernacular names are not what we do with any consistency, not are we meant to. I do not care that they are there but they should not be appearing here as they detract from identifying issues related to our actual purpose. Plus as stated they are a minefield, even within a singular language. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 11:34, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

What do you mean by "there" and "here"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:33, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Fair enough. I do not mind that they are included on pages as additional information. However, they should not be showing up in special pages used to identify important missing items on this wiki. Since vernacular names are not part of taxonomy or nomenclature, are unstable by nature and generally not useful. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 18:38, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
"special pages used to identify important missing items on this wiki" I think you're misunderstanding what the "Most missed articles" page is. I'm still not clear what you mean by "there" and "here", in your earlier post. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Vernacular names are garbage information and not relevant to a wiki on taxonomy and nomenclature. That clear enough for you? There is no constant usage for them, no reference of any value for this, no nomenclatural rules for their stability. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:41, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Clear, but not at all relevant to the point at hand. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:05, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I am strongly opposing the idea to create any redirects from vernacular names to taxon pages. I will try to explain this on the example of the vernacular "biber". How would you know, if someone is searching for the German word "Biber" or the Turkish word "biber" or the Bosnian word "biber"? Creating a certain redirect is prohibiting, that the rest of the people searching for a different meaning of the same sequence of letters will find, what they want. When such redirects do not exist, the search at least will result in a list of pages, where this vernacular is occurring. You may try the search with the word "biber" and at the first page of the results you get at least the German and the Turkish target. (No result for Bosnian so far.) --Franz Xaver (talk) 13:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I don't see "biber" on the list of Most missed articles; what makes you think it will appear there in the future? Also, Most missed articles is not a list of pages people have searched for, it is a list of pages they have tried to visit, directly. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I was not talking about this obscure list, but about the issue of redirects for vernacular names. Anyway, if the word "Trakulje" is on this list now, why not any other vernacular could happen to occur there sometimes in the future? --Franz Xaver (talk) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Here's some background information, for reference[edit]

The Wikispecies:Most missed articles list was created in November 2008, in Wikispecies namespace. It uses data from the three User subpages User:Melancholie/mmA, User:Melancholie/mmA frame, and User:Melancholie/mmA blacklist. They were created the same day or the day before, and of course all reside in User namespace. (Btw the user's latest contribution to Wikispecies was in August 2009. This is also true for the now inactive bot MelancholieBot, run by the same user.)

The "Most missed articles" list was/is conducting its searches using source code that were once found on this page, on an external non-Wikimedia site. That particular URL is now dead, but was crawled and archived one time by the Wayback Machine. (Click "March 6, 2016" in the calendar to see the archived page.) Furthermore information in the list tells us we should import this JavaScript code last updated in 2011 from the German language version of Wiktionary into the Wikispecies' file MediaWiki:Common.js in the MediaWiki namespace. So in order for the list to work in the best way possible we rely on code from three Wikispecies' subpages of a User page, JavaScript from a dictionary Wiki sister project, and some now non-existing and therefore unreadable source code from a non-wiki page that isn't updated anymore? Surely this can't be the best way to maintain such a list..?

If we decide to keep the list (which as Andy Mabbett explains above may be a good idea) and update it in the future, I suggest we scrap the current version and start anew, using Wikispecies specific templates (e.g. not pages in User namespace) and fetch data from Wikidata and/or Toolforge (formerly "Wikimedia Tool Labs" i.e. "WMFlabs") plus Cloud VPS (formerly "Wikimedia Labs"). –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 13:37, 31 March 2018 (UTC).

In its current format I would vote to delete it. Am open to suggestions but need convincing. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:43, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Deleting the list would not make the issue go away; it would just keep us ignorant of it. I'm not seeing any advantage in that, to us or our users. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Annals of the Transvaal Museum[edit]

There's a en:w:Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request#Annals of the Transvaal Museum request on en.Wikipedia:

Looking for: Roberts, A. (1946). Descriptions of numerous new subspecies of mammals. Annals of the Transvaal Museum, 20(4), 303-328.

This would be helpful to expand the article I just created on the Damara horseshoe bat, as Roberts is the one who initially described it.

Please reply there if you can help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:11, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Try Annals of the Transvaal Museum. Older volumes might be challenging to find. Neferkheperre (talk) 19:20, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Category templates consensus please[edit]

A have noticed that some editors add [[Category:Taxonavigation templates]]</noinclude> + <includeonly>[[Category:Pages with taxonavigation templates]]</includeonly><noinclude> to taxonavigation templates, whereas at least one editor deletes these categories. I have not yet seen an edit war, so that is encouraging. Firstly, what is the advantage of these bits of code? Do we need them? What are the reasons for deleting them? Finally if there is consensus to keep or delete can a bot do this semi-automatically? Regards Andyboorman (talk) 12:10, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm ambivalent about the latter, but the former is useful (or, would be if widely applied). See, for example, en:Wikipedia:PetScan for how categories can be utilised. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
I am fairly neutral on this, though the second one I consider a bit of a waste of time, the first I am neutral. I do not see it as that useful here. Cheers, Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 11:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
I suppose the intent was to have each Wikispecies:Page types categorized to at least one category. I think, Category:Taxonavigation templates could be useful. I do not know what was the purpose of Category:Pages with taxonavigation templates, just copied both categories from older taxonavigation templates to new ones. If the community decides not to use those categories, those entries should not be deleted manually, as Category:Taxonavigation templates includes more than 67,000 entries. But I prefer to keep the first category (maybe a bot can add it to all taxonavigation templates). --Thiotrix (talk) 08:29, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Most of these categories were added in the course of a single bot action on 17th Jan 2017, without having discussed the issue before. A discussion was started, after much of the action already had been completed. (Anyway, at that moment this kind of categorisation was not completed for all taxonavigation templates existing at that moment.) To me, the discussion was not convincing, that such categories would make any sense, and if something like this would be nice to have, that it should be done exactly this way. Therefore, I have remove manually some of these categories here and then in a number of taxonavigation templates.
OK, Category:Taxonavigation templates might be useful, but Category:Pages with taxonavigation templates probably is a waste of resources. And the fact, that this also places all the taxonavigation templates into the same category as the taxon pages, in my opinion, seems to be a somewhat dirty implementation of a spontaneous idea. --Franz Xaver (talk) 11:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Cross symbol[edit]

On a couple of occasions recently, I've seen this symbol: "†" used to annotate a taxon name. No explanation was given. What (if anything) does it mean? It's problematic, not only because of the obscure meaning, but because it cannot be searched for. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:23, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Really is dagger symbol. For taxa, meaning is extinct. When used for taxon authors, they are deceased. Neferkheperre (talk) 00:35, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Yes it is a symbol that is known by the specialists contributing here and those interested in our topics. Please do not delete. Andyboorman (talk) 07:28, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Our audience is not just "specialists", much less only those "contributing here". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:58, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
In that case, they should be replaced by {{Extinct}} (; which I have just updated to use HTML's <abbr> element) or {{Deceased}} (; which I have just created), as appropriate, for reasons of accessibility. I suggest we also consider using categories for reasons of searchability. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:58, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
The dagger symbol has been used to denote extinct taxa for over 100 years, in everything from general information books to specialist literature. So I personally see no issue with it and it is considered correct notation. Out of curiosity why did you update the current template? It already presented the work extinct upon hover. Cheers, Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:45, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
never mind the last I see what you did, replaced span with abbr, updated the coding, fair enough. Cheers, Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:49, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
One difference is that the <abbr> tag underlines the abbreviations (or in this case the dagger symbol), making users aware that hovering will present additional information. In most browsers the <span title...> method used by you will not. From an aesthetic point of view I find the underscore a bit less pleasant, but it serves well as a heads up about the hovering. Both methods are fully supported by the HTML5 standard, so no issue there. (As a comparison, the similar <acronym> tag is not officially supported by the latest flavours of HTML.) Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 23:29, 31 March 2018 (UTC).

Validity disputed[edit]

We have just two entries in Category:Validity disputed:

Both are Ordo: Therapsida, and were created by a long-absent user in 2006, and were tagged as disputed by User:Lycaon (who hasn't edited for over 12 months) in the same year. In neither case was the recommended discussion started on their talk pages. Can anyone suggest what should be done with them? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:02, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

These two taxa were accepted as valid about 30 years ago. This was attempt to subdivide Order Carnivora at that time. Taxonomy seems to have moved on, and I don't know if anyone still accepts them. Neferkheperre (talk) 00:38, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
These two "disputed names" are suborder synonyms: Canoidea is a synonym of Caniformia and Feloidea is a synonym of Feliformia. Mariusm (talk) 08:04, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Both items have now been redirected. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Turtle ID[edit]

Did I identify File:Red-eared slider × yellow-bellied slider on a rock.jpg correctly? I'd like to know before adding the picture to the Wikipedia article. I had asked Faendalimas but think he missed it or doesn't know. Alexis Jazz (talk) 16:22, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I saw your message last night and had a brief look, just have not had time to reply. hybrids are difficult to identify. I need some info about the animal, ie, is it wild caught, or captive, exactly where it was found. If you have one a photo of the plastron, belly,. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 12:05, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
She (I am told its a she) was born in captivity and currently living in a paludarium. The current owner doesn't really know anything about it and got it from the previous owner when it was very young. The previous owner didn't know much either. She lives with a male turtle that is (afaik) a yellow-bellied slider. I won't put the photo of the hybrid belly on Commons because the quality is poor, but you can see it here: Alexis Jazz (talk) 13:48, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Heya, thanks, yes there was no need to put the plastron phot on commons I just needed to see it. I agree this is T. s. scripta x T. s. elegans based on what I can see. That is yellow belly slider crossed with red ear slider. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:35, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Navigation popups[edit]

In my work on our sister projects, I find the Navigation popups gadget immensely useful.

I would like to have it enabled here, and make it an option for all users, according to the steps at en:Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups/FAQ#Using the script on other wikis. Can someone assist, please? I think we may need a bureaucrat. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:51, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

I've added the necessary importScriptURI etc… code string to the MediaWiki:Common.js file, in order to import the "popups.js" JavaScript we need. Unfortunately I don't have access to the "LocalSettings.php" file on the Wikispecies server, hence can't add the necessary two lines of code needed to enable the "User Style" setting for the script. (See Manual:LocalSettings.php on MediaWiki for details.) The same is true when I try to enable the "short URLs" setting, since I have no access to our Apache server either. (See MediaWiki Manual:Short URL). All of this is of course possible to fix, but atm I don't know how. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:57, 1 April 2018 (UTC).

Unsafe scripts[edit]

Why is my browser reporting WS trying to load scripts from unsafe sources? Is this a concern or just my browser having a hissy fit? Andyboorman (talk) 20:51, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

First of all, emptying your web server's cache- and cookie files may help, and then please restart your computer. If the problem persist, does this happen when you visit any Wikispecies page, or just some specific pages? Hopefully the latter. If that's the case, my guess is that some of the public TLS- and/or SSL identity key certificates used by the Wikimedia servers are no longer valid. These encryption certificates adds an extra layer of security by helping your web browser verify the true identity of the recipient server, thus protecting against man-in-the-middle attacks and other threats. This is signified by the "s" in https:// (i.e. "HTTP Secure") at the beginning of every Wikimedia web page address.
These certificates are issued by external certification authority companies (e.g. Verisign, Thawte, Symantec). They are only valid for a fixed period of time – often a year – just like any other identity document such as an ID card, passport, or driver's license. All modern web browsers warn if you try to enter a page that uses an expired certificate. Valid certificates does of course not render a warning, and for most browsers neither will you receive a warning if the server doesn't use any identity key certificate at all (in other words when the address starts with http:// without the "s").
Different parts of Wikimedia uses different security certificates, with different levels of security and expiration times (depending on need/price and when they were issued). Can you please give an example of a Wikispecies page which renders you the warning, so I can check the validity of the certificate and if necessary contact the Wikimedia tech guys for an update? –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 11:58, 2 April 2018 (UTC).
Its all pages including this one. However, there is no alert on Commons, Wdata or WP. I have cleared cache etc. as suggested and it is still occurring. I am using Chrome and the alert shows at the top right of the page by a half full shield next to the Bookmark star. Andyboorman (talk) 13:06, 2 April 2018 (UTC)


Metophiurida (infraclass of Ophiuroidea) has 79 inbound links; our most-linked taxon page that does not yet exist. Can someone make it, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:57, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Done Burmeister (talk) 23:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)


I accidentally messed up the page Brachypelma smithi trying to put the character ♀ into the caption after identifying the image as female, but now it just says a bunch of boogaloo in red! Plus, this page is on the front page! HELP HELP HELP I DON'T WANT TO BE A VANDAL HELP!!! GermanGamer77 (talk) 20:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I revert your editions, but you can revert yourself in "View history" section, when a mistake is made. Regards Burmeister (talk) 20:28, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
@GermanGamer77: Danke for helping--you're not a vandal. I've fixed the caption now--the WikiWay works! —Justin (koavf)TCM 20:31, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

IRMNG as a potential resource for Wikispecies[edit]

Hi all, I am not currently a Wikispecies contributor (because there are only so many hours a day and my energies are mainly directed elsewhere, see below) but do lurk occasionally at the WS Village Pump to catch what is going on. However I thought it might be worthwhile to introduce my taxonomic names-collecting project to you, IRMNG, the Interim Register of Marine and Nonmarine Genera, in case there are aspects of it that might help Wikispecies - for example for gap analysis or as a source of names you might otherwise not find so easily. IRMNG contains as many genus names as I have been able to locate over the lifetime of the project (2006 onwards), currently over 485,000, with more added on an intermittent basis, all arranged in a coherent taxonomic hierarchy (although not all are allocated to family at this time). In addition to a simple name search and a browsable taxon tree, one of the things that distinguishes IRMNG from some other compilations (apart from its scope which, like Wikispecies, is "all life", both extant and fossil) is the facility to fine tune searches to one's particular needs e.g. filter by taxonomic group and by cited year - this facility being available via the IRMNG "advanced search" page at For example, a search for genus names published in 2010 in Coleoptera yields 248 names and is set up as follows:

  • Authority [contains] 2010
  • Rank [is] Genus
  • Belongs to: Coleoptera (selected from picklist once "Coleoptera" is entered)

The resulting list looks like this (start):

IRMNG Taxon list

Search returned 248 matching records, showing records 1-100.

Click on one of the taxon names listed below to check the details.

List of names


Of course you can do similar things with any other taxonomic group or with all names, or search for a particular author name, etc. etc. The entire IRMNG dataset (down to genus) can also be downloaded without restriction, see, and the download file is updated from the master (web) version a couple of times a year at this time.

Just mentioning this in case it is of value. I spend quite a lot of time trawling various resources out there (although always more work to be done!) and integrating the results so may be able to save downstream users such as yourselves a bit of time, perhaps. Of course in an ideal world this stuff would only require to be entered once into a single location and then flow seamlessly to other projects but that state of nirvana is still a little way off :) Best regards - Tony Rees Tony 1212 (talk) 00:28, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

BTW I should point out that IRMNG is fairly complete up to around 2012 or so (later for some groups) but less so for the most recently published names - a situation that may be rectified at some point ... Tony 1212 (talk) 00:38, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Also note the method above works for plant groups as well, since (in contrast to "classic" botanical tradition) I like to keep the publication year as well as the author names for botanical genera, as well as zoological ones. Of course, use of the year in the query filter is optional, if you do not use it you will simply get all names for any desired group (up to a limit of 10,000 per query via the web). Tony 1212 (talk) 05:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
The best solution would be to propose a Wikidata property for your identifiers (e.g. "1469897" for Acanthocolum), then load them all into Wikidata's Mix'n'Match tool, and match them to existing Wikidata items, or create new items where necessary. Then, we can run a query on Wikidata, "list all items with an IRMNG ID that has no Wikispecies page". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:51, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
My Wikidata-Bot is able to read the Darwin Core Archive and can match the ID to the correct Wikidata item. --Succu (talk) 14:45, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Tony 1212, Do you distinguish or are you being able to distinguish between valid genera and genera names in synonymy, genera-names-class such as subgenera, and rank-transferred names. for example: (1) A search for "Empleurus" yields "Empleurus Hope, 1838 accepted as Helophorus Fabricius, 1775" but doesn't indicate that Empleurus is a subgenus of Helophorus. (2) A search for "Tachyusota" yields "Status unaccepted" which is correct, but wrongly states "Accepted Name: Ischnopoda Stephens, 1835" (the correct one is Tachyusa Erichson, 1837). (3) Calischnopoda is listed as "accepted" yet it's a synonymy of Ischnopoda. Mariusm (talk) 15:22, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Hello Mariusm, thanks for checking out my compilation and for your questions which I will try to answer. For your question (1), as you realise, the taxonomicStatus field (mostly "accepted" or "unaccepted") refers to the presently stored status at generic rather than subgeneric level; IRMNG at present does not attempt to store subgenera as separate entities (a legacy from its original design and rapid assembly nature) although in future it could do so (with a lot of additional work). There is a "notes" field in the master file which, in the cited case of Empleurus Hope, 1838, reads : "Taxonomic remark: As Helophorus (Empleurus) in Hallan, 2000-. Currently valid as subgenus (Hallan, 2000-)." (refer; unfortunately these notes are only readable on the web version at present, not in the DwCA archive download (I could maybe ask VLIZ, the present database custodians, to think about preparing the notes fields as a separate table for download). (2) and (3) require me to do some further checking; if there are stated synonymies given in IRMNG they will have come from somewhere (again, sources are viewable via the web version) but they may be outdated compared with more recent sources - hopefully any such errors are for historic reasons rather than actual mistakes.
There is a fourth issue which you have not yet spotted but may become apparent: when I created IRMNG I had a status equivalent to "unassessed" for names of which the taxonomic status had not been further researched (i.e., their valid name or synonym status was not known), however in the current, VLIZ-hosted version that status does not exist and all such names (around 20% of animal genera) are treated as "accepted", although (once again via the web version) their is a note on validity "Not yet assessed" (or some such wording). Again for power users, I could get VLIZ to generate a list of the relevant IRMNG IDs/names if this is important for you. Cheers - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 23:50, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
OK, I checked the cases you mentioned in points (3) and (4). Tachyusota Casey, 1906 is listed in IRMNG as a synonym of Ischnopoda based on Hallan's Biology Catalog from which I uploaded relevant information in 2012, in which it is given as a subgenus of Ischnopoda. I note, however, that in Löbl & Löbl's 2015 catalogue, Tachyusota is given in the synonymy of Tachyusa Erichson; I can update this in the master IRMNG version, from which it will propagate to the next web download in due course (but not for some months). Calischnopoda is a different case in that it is one of the "unassessed" names in IRMNG (sourced from Nomenclator Zoologicus but not encountered in other taxonomic lists yet used for IRMNG population or markup) but coming through as "accepted" for now via the VLIZ hosting procedure (although it will be on any separately generated list of IRMNG unassessed names). I see that Löbl & Löbl list this as a synonym of Ischnopoda as you point out, so I can update this record also, although there will still be perhaps 100,000 names not yet assessed in the IRMNG master file (along with 300,000+ that have been, at least from one cited source) which is just a fact of the current IRMNG data set that has to be borne in mind (with my apologies).
Perhaps the take-home message is that IRMNG will alert you to names that have been published in a particular group, but you cannot always rely on it for the latest taxonomic status of all the names held which should therefore ideally be verified independently. Over time, the treatment of particular groups is upgraded but because taxonomy is a moving target IRMNG cannot unfortunately be as up-to-date in all respects as other, more specialist compilations; however IRMNG does provide an integrated view across all groups (useful, e.g. for the detection of homonyms in particular) that its equivalents elsewhere typically do not, as well as open access to the data in an easily reusable form. By the way, more details on IRMNG data sources used plus some of its benefits and/or limitations are contained in this 2017 publication: IRMNG 2006–2016: 10 Years of a Global Taxonomic Database Tony 1212 (talk) 03:25, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@Tony 1212: many thanks for your detailed answer. The IRMNG can indeed be of value when searching for genus-name basic attributes but the details must be double-checked for accuracy. Mariusm (talk) 09:59, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@Mariusm:Correct! I named it "Interim" for this reason (also because when something better comes along, it can be superseded or retired...) Tony 1212 (talk) 21:09, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
I have now posted a proposal for a Wikidata property, at d:Wikidata:Property proposal/IRMNG taxon ID. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:16, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Pigsonthewing:, just letting you know that IRMNG has many duplicated names (homonyms sensu stricto plus sensu lato i.e. between kingdoms, nomina nuda, and published misspellings which collide with other, correctly spelled names of different taxa) that have to be borne in mind for any mapping exercise - see lists at When I last looked here were over 70,000 such cases at genus level (perhaps 30,000 discrete names) of which the worst is Wagneria with 14(?) instances... Plus there are also unrecognised cases, e.g. within the last 10 minutes I came across a genus Platydiscus in a botanical paper; the only Platydiscus in the present IRMNG download file is an animal, but this one is indeed a (fossil) plant genus name published in 2001 and not present in the major nomenclators. Incorrect mappings could have some (ahem) 'interesting' consequences. Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 20:12, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Tony, looks like the IRMNG REST webservice is not working. I'm getting only 404 errors. --Succu (talk) 15:19, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Succu:, thanks for notifying us of that. There was a small error in the implementation which is now fixed. As an example, is now working, with other options described at . Cheers - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 20:15, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Great, Tony! I will check this tomorrow. --Succu (talk) 20:19, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Non-standard taxon formatting[edit]

We have just 84 entries in Category:Non-standard taxon formatting; most (but not all) relate to the work of Thomas Cavalier-Smith. Can we clean them up, between us, and so empty that category? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:28, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


Could somebody create some articles on namespace "MediaWiki" as below:

Thanks. --Garam (talk) 18:24, 11 April 2018 (UTC)