Abbreviazioni: WS:V, WS:VP

# Wikispecies:Village Pump

Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecies.

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## A lot of data on species at russian Lomonosov Moscow State University resource

Hello!

Thanks a lot for your work! World wouldnt be such a great place without wiki resources. I don't know how to contribute here, I'm not in biology at all, but i just found this data source.

Go here https://animal.depo.msu.ru/module/itemsearchpublic, pess ESC, then swtich to EN at the top right corner, for example mark the "Specimens with photo only" checbox on the popup window, click "OK". Then at the top ringt corner change a "Rows" to 1-20000 (max) and I bet you will be impressed how many rare species photos are availible there.

I bielive you could gather much more usefull information there, some of it choul be translated. Maybe somebody could contact MSU, but even if not, somehow we have to save this content before a possible isolation of russian net.

P.S. Other depositaries:

Thanks again, and sorry me for breaking your commetns publishing rules.

Regards, @sntxerror. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 178.252.125.198 (talkcontribs) 22:22, 12 April 2019‎.

## Eugen Karl Kempf

I just found out Tuesday that our ostracod editor Eugen Karl Kempf passed away in 2017, one day after his 85th birthday. Wikidata did not have this information, I have updated his author page. Neferkheperre (talk) 22:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. Professor Kempf started editing Wikispecies in May 2011, and soon became a very experienced user. In total he contributed with well over 8,000 edits. More than 2,400 of those were new pages, and he created his last Wikispecies page only one month before he sadly passed away. Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 18:18, 2 May 2019 (UTC).
Sad news. As we have no relevant policy, I've taken a leaf from that at Wikipedia: en:Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians/Guidelines and protected his user page (and semi-protected his talk page); and applied {{Deceased Wikispecies editor}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:22, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

## Eponyms

I have created {{Eponyms}} and {{Eponyms by person}}, and am using them as I migrate categories from "Patronyms of..." to "Eponyms of...".

For example, see this category page and this author page.

Feel free to join in. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:33, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Good idea. Using "patronyms" creates linguistic conflict with East and South Slavs. In those cultures, patronymic refers to one's middle name and means 'son of' or 'daughter of'. It is referred to as such on Russian passports. Eponym will remove confusion.Neferkheperre (talk) 22:53, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I agree. Also, "patronym" (and of course "matronym") are gender specific terms, whereas "eponym" isn't. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 03:42, 16 May 2019 (UTC).
Very well done. From there I also learnt to use the gadget cat-a-lot. Thanks.--Hector Bottai (talk) 22:09, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Good initiative Andy! I went ahead and created the {{Eponymy}} sister template which works in the same way as {{Eponyms}}, except for the wording. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 03:42, 16 May 2019 (UTC).
Why? How does having two templates for the same purpose help us? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:35, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
While some people may prefer one wording, I agree there is no justification for using two different section titles, and even less for using two different templates! Circeus (talk) 19:47, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
My reason for creating it was the one mentioned by Circeus: some people prefer using "eponymy" instead of "eponyms", just as they may prefer "synonymy" over "synonyms". Then I realised that since we don't have a {{Synonymy}} template to accommodate that user preference, we might as well skip the {{Eponymy}} one as well. Hence it's now deleted. Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 13:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC).
If we can't have variant citation styles, then we sure as hell aren't going to have this sort of pointless variation. Circeus (talk) 20:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── In my opinion, moving a list of eponyms to a (likely incomplete) category is foolish. It's almost like we WANT to obscure and lose information: a category only includes taxon name, thus we lose the data of authority and year. Why not leave as a list (including red-links that would encourage page creation). Why even have publications on Author pages when we can endlessly file away publications under Category:Publications by John Q. Taxonomist? Animalparty (talk) 23:04, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

## Category:New genus-group name 2014

A few years ago we have desided to cancel Category:new genus-group name etc. I see a lot of these categories on the pages. When is these transaction finished? PeterR (talk) 08:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

A list of these can be seen at Category:Names. I can depopulate and delete them if there is consensus to do so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Andy. there a lot more Categories: new genus; new species etc. All these can be delete. PeterR (talk) 15:12, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
@PeterR: No, there are no categories named Categories:New genus or Categories:New species etc. Which others have you found, except for the ones that are listed in Category:Names?
Andy, I agree with PeterR. All of those Category:New genus-group name 1817 (...1827, 1837, 1916, etc...) categories should be deleted, as we decided several years ago.
Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 02:39, 21 May 2019 (UTC).
I've emptied and deleted all those that were in Category:Names, but found a bunch more under Category:New genus group names. I'll work my way through them when I have time. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:43, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Please give link to conversation where this was decided years ago. Neferkheperre (talk) 14:43, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
I found one, but no consensus reached. Burmeister (talk) 14:53, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh yes, I remember that now. looks like most people were either neutral or hinging in favor at the time (I know I wasn't strongly opposed, my main concern was that the two codes work priority in very different ways). Most of the debate was focused on what structure to give the category tree. Circeus (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

### Other superfluous categories

I'm spotting a bunch of unneeded stuff, much of it leftover from Stephen's unilateral work. I remember trying to do work on the higher categories years ago, buuuuuuuut getting talk about this stuff is almost impossible and I was not confident enough to just boldly berserk my way through it until people started complaining.

Circeus (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

category:Original combination/Subsequent combination may be of some use to botanists; category:Primary types exactly duplicates information in our Repository categories, and primary type information, including catalog numbers where known, should be listed in Name section of taxon pages. Yes, any subspecies categories should be merged into species-group categories, to make consistent with genus-group and family group categories.
Valid names categories are nothing more than lists of taxon pages, and of little use. Invalid names categories sound of more use to botanists. I can see some use for some of the name status categories for special purposes, such as Conserved Names, nomen nuda. Gender mismatches are not much issue at all, and incorrect spellings are usually typos, and are sufficiently noted attached to reference citations. Neferkheperre (talk) 20:26, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Except even without having looked at them I'm 80% sure the "invalid names" are all really in the ICZN sense, i.e. just synonyms that shouldn't even have pages. Circeus (talk) 02:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
category:Original combination/Subsequent combination is not useful to botanists, as it uses the wrong terminology. "Basionym" is the correct botanical term for "original combination". --Franz Xaver (talk) 13:16, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

### Procedures

Since only thing which seems to be agreed upon so far is that no definite agreement was ever reached, think maybe we can stop removing entries until we do reach one? If we do agree to keep them, we will have to put them all back. Seems kind of unilateral. Neferkheperre (talk) 12:42, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Not sure you have got that one right. There seems to be agreement here and in the past that most, if not all, of these categories are not required, superfluous and so on ...Their removal will certainly not produce a Wikispecies Lite, I feel. Andyboorman (talk) 17:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Some users here are all too zealous to go ahead and delete categories en masse. I suggest cooling down a little before starting to delete. Especially please don't delete the following categories:

I gave the reasons for their existence several times in detail and I'm tired of repeating my claims again and again. Just be more considerate and wait to reach a consensus before starting any harsh action. Mariusm (talk) 17:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

"Some users here are all too zealous to go ahead and delete categories en masse. I suggest cooling down a little before starting to delete." Really, Mariusm? I acted in good faith on a request made by an editor in good standing, who reported that consensus had already been reached, only after waiting three days to see whether there were any ojections (as can be seen above, there were none in that time), and for another editor in good standing, whoa also reported prior consensus, to second the request. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:11, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Mariusm, all the times you "gave the reasons for their existence" that I can locate are you arguing alone vs. everyone else involved in the conversation and the only reason people haven't done anything is that literally tens of thousands of pages are involved and they preferred to add content. Believe me, I would have felt no remorse whatsoever rampaging through it all with AWB, but I'm lazy. Circeus (talk) 19:47, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
I am with the rampagers here. This should be a site of taxonomy not category. Andyboorman (talk) 00:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
I can see the value in the accepted and controversial name categories but why would we categorize species by being extinct or extant? —Justin (koavf)TCM 00:41, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
As far as fossil taxa are concerned, some subdivision as to Eocene, Oligocene, etc. is very useful for those trying to track down identifications, etc. This rampaging periodically takes on appearance of unilateral behaviour. Discussion linked did not reach any real consensus as to publication year categories, although some alternatives and formats were presented. None were voted on. This type of result seems to be normal here. Lively discussion followed by dwindling. Is interesting that sudden desire to just start up mass deletions happens two years after last discussion. Why this delay?
If people are bored, then please help link pages to Wikidata (to do list). Apparently almost nobody is doing this when they create pages here. I go on the todo list and link up 30-40 per day, in addition to my own page creations. In spite of this, list grows by up to 50 per day, and is now above 3300. Help would be nice. Lots and lots of entries in Uncategorized Templates and Wanted Categories to solve. Neferkheperre (talk) 01:31, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
"This type of result seems to be normal here. Lively discussion followed by dwindling. Is interesting that sudden desire to just start up mass deletions happens two years after last discussion. Why this delay?" because except for the occasional timely case, getting any kind oc actual consensus on issues that don't directly impact how a page looks is FAR harder than herding cat. I also tried to ge a handle on the multiplying institution abbreviations years ago, remember? I was basically screaming into the void about it. Circeus (talk) 15:15, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
@Circeus: don't be so eager to remove the hard work of others. Unfortunately the automatic tools are providing you with the means to easily do so while the indifference of the others helps this transpire. I wish you quell your ire with boxing or judo and not on WS. You're sure to oppose everything I say just for the sake of opposing. Mariusm (talk) 15:21, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
I'd be quite happy not to respond to you at all; just as soon as you cease continually denigrating me, what I say, and the work I do. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:31, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm: Your comments to and others are unworthy of you. It would be best if you pause and reflect before further contributing here. Andyboorman (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
"Unfortunately the automatic tools are providing you with the means to easily do so while the indifference of the others helps this transpire." I would argue those circumstances are what gave rise to this situation to begin with. What goes around comes around.
As it is, I am trying to avoid throwing Wikispecies into drama (there's no need for another Stephen crisis), but I certainly would not safeguard these just because one user supports them. A consensus has no requirement to be universal. Circeus (talk) 19:25, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

## Link formatting in reference templates

Is there any reason that links in reference templates (for example {{Nonveiller, 1996}}) are marked up as:

[http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Nonveiller,_1996 reference page]
[http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:{{BASEPAGENAMEE}} find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference]

which renders as:

reference page
find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference

and not as:

[[Template:Nonveiller, 1996|reference page]]
[[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:{{BASEPAGENAMEE}}|find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference]]

which renders as:

reference page
find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference

The former including the "external link" icon, the latter not? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Because {{subst:reftemp}} appears to be programmed that way. Neferkheperre (talk) 15:34, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you; I understand the mechanics fully, but want to know why the decision was made for them to be this way. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:54, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
This goes way back to the very first edit of the template when {{Reftemp}} was first created by Stho002 in early May 2012. I don't know why he decided to format the template using full URLs instead of pure wiki code. I propose that we now change it using Andy's latter example since it's cleaner, shorter, and more legible. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:28, 23 May 2019 (UTC).
Can this be done with a simple edit to {{subst:reftemp}}? Andyboorman (talk) 17:50, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes; we'd also need to consider getting a bot to work through existing instances (as the template is usually subst'd, changing it won't change them). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:19, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Please note that rather than as in the example above, the best format probably is:

[[Template:Nonveiller, 1996|Reference page.]]
[[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:{{BASEPAGENAMEE}}|Find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference.]]

which renders as:

Reference page.
Find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference.

i.e. with leading caps and ending with full stop. This is also how the text is formatted by {{Reftemp}} today, since 2016. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:45, 24 May 2019 (UTC).

Looks OK. One tiny thing, which I have seen brought up before: "Find all wikispecies pages ..." is also accessed by "What links here" on sidebar. I myself go for "Find all" instead of sidebar when searching in Reference templates. Neferkheperre (talk) 20:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Agreed about the caps (that's my error in manually recreating the links), but the stops should be outside the links, thus:

Reference page.
Find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference.

so that there are non-linking characters bewteen these and any adjacent links, for reasons of accessibility. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:13, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes Andy, you're of course right – so my error this time. :-) I usually format wiki links in the manner you describe, also when considering other characters than full stops. For instance I prefer ''[[ISSN 0045-8511|Copeia]]'' over [[ISSN 0045-8511|''Copeia'']] since I think the links should contain as little extra wiki code as possible within their brackets. Trying to keep the code clean also reduces the risk of improperly nesting different code elements and attributes. Do you remember those
[[Template:Arriaga-Varela & Tomaszewska, 1976|{{aut|Arriaga-Varela}} & {{aut|Tomaszewska}}, 1976]]
constructions that you-know-who used to create some years ago? And all of that code only results in one wiki link! Even though the syntax itself is correct I'm sure code strings like that must look daunting to our much needed Wikispecies' newbies. Anyway: sorry for digressing. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 00:58, 25 May 2019 (UTC).
The {{Reftemp}} template is now mended and should work as per Andy's example. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 18:47, 3 June 2019 (UTC).

### ReftempZt

By the way, the same is true for the {{ReftempZt}} sister template. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 02:53, 4 June 2019 (UTC).
I just tried out {{ReftempZt}} twice this evening. I see it has been updated for int: translation format, and it does install headings for all of the nomenclatural data. This is good. One or two issues:
1. Date of publication invariable is 19 January 2015.
3. For new names, only brackets are provided. No biggie, it does provide installation point.
Minor tweaking shall make it quite useful. Next is to explore if it can be used on any reference template. Much time can be saved. Neferkheperre (talk) 02:37, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the information. I missed those details altogether, simply because my main focus was to change the same stuff as in the {{Reftemp}} template i.e. the format of the "What Links Here" links as described above. Personally I use the {{Reftemp}} template several times a day but sofar never actually used the {{ReftempZt}} template even once, so I didn't really bother to check anything else than the wiki link format and localization tags. Since I haven't yet studied the ZooBank API in detail I may very well be wrong but as far as I can tell, ZooBank doesn't always present data in exactly the same way or form on all its different nomenclatural acts-, author- or reference pages. Therefore I think that it will be impossible for the {{ReftempZt}} template to always fetch publication dates, list of new taxon names or even ZooBank ID:s directly from ZooBank in the correct way – let alone automatically presenting all that data in the correct way on Wikispecies. For this to work we would probably need several different templates for (Zootaxa articles presented by) ZooBank, depending on which specific types of data we're after. Partly like the original idea behind the different {{ZooBankAct}}, {{ZooBankAut}} and {{ZooBankRef}} templates we used earlier, for non-Zootaxa articles. (Of course nowadays all of that has been simplified and we need only use the standard {{ZooBank}} template for non-Zootaxa articles – but we still need to add the ZooBank ID manually, by hand, as in for example {{ZooBank|E99C6B0B-68FB-4962-906E-47404A3CFED9}}= ZooBank.)
As for now, I've removed the hard-coded date and year from the template. It was first added by Stho002 back in May 2014 and then updated by him a bunch of times up until late January 2015, but no one have bothered to touch it since. The correct date still isn't automatically added, but I figure it's better to not add any date at all, rather than an incorrect one... I also changed the inline ZooBank template to the preferred format but again: the actual ZooBank ID isn't added automatically, and leaving it alone will render an empty/dead link. I have a lot of non-Wiki related IRL stuff to deal with the next couple of weeks, and probably wont have much time to study the ZooBank API in order to try and fix this. As you said Neferkheperre, much time could be saved if we can get this to work, and of course the sooner the better. Unless another user (hopefully... :) beats me to it, I will look in to it when time allows for it within a fortnight or so. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 05:52, 5 June 2019 (UTC).

### Cleanup by bot

Do we have anyone with a bot, able and willing to clean up past substitutions of {{Reftemp}}? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:50, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Please take a look at Template:Adams & Schwarzbach, 2012a‎ and at Template:Adamowicz, 1857 which I've modified using my MariusBot to comply to the above new format. If they're right I'll set my bot loose on the other templates. Mariusm (talk) 09:50, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm: Thank you. In the former, [[Template:Adams_%26_Schwarzbach,_2012a|Reference page]] should probably be changed to [[Template:Adams & Schwarzbach, 2012a|Reference page]] (no underscores; unencoded ampersand) and similarly for other encoded characters. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:05, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Well, this isn't really connected to the issues discussed in this section. If we're going to modify underscores & encoded characters, it probably requires further discussion and agreement upon beforehand. Mariusm (talk) 13:27, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── It is entirely connected to the issues discussed in this section; in my original post I gave the example of {{Nonveiller, 1996}} noting that it was, in part, marked up as:

[http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Nonveiller,_1996 reference page]

and not as:

[[Template:Nonveiller, 1996|reference page]]

Note the there is an underscore preceding the year in the former, but not the latter. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:14, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

I venture to suggest there's some misunderstanding: The current {{subst:reftemp}}, modified to include the above revision still includes in its code {{subst:BASEPAGENAMEE}} which produces the underscores & encoded characters (see the recently produced Template:Manuel et al., 2018). Mariusm (talk) 08:17, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm: Thank you for your note about the {{BASEPAGENAMEE}} magic word – I totally missed that one. When Stho002 first created the template he obviously opted for the standard www-type web addresses rather than Wikimedia-type URLs. When dealing with standard web addresses it is often necessary to use underscore rather than blank space, and to encode ampersands etc. Otherwise the addresses wont work, and that's why Stho002 had to use {{BASEPAGENAMEE}}. That particular magic word automatically replaces spaces with underscores, and some characters are automatically escaped using numeric character encoding (e.g. &%26).
As said, this is necessary when using full web addresses such as http://www.wikidata... etc. However this is not the standard nor the proper way of linking to wiki pages, when linking from within the wiki itself. In those cases we should use blank spaces, ampersands and number signs (#) and such, since all of the necessary conversions are automatically taken care of by the MediaWiki server software. The solution is very straightforward: we simply replace {{BASEPAGENAMEE}} in the template with {{BASEPAGENAME}} and everything should work just fine. The {{BASEPAGENAME}} magic word works in the exact same way as the other, except without the underscore/escaping stuff. In other words it will produce standard wiki addresses, not "www"-type addresses. Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:31, 9 June 2019 (UTC).
So (1) why don't you modify Template:Reftemp to reflect this ? (2) What exactly is the purpose of the code <{{subst:Ino}}>[[Template:{{subst:BASEPAGENAMEE}}|Reference page]].</{{subst:Ino}}>Mariusm (talk) 16:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm: (1): As all others I only have a limited time I can dedicate to Wikispecies, but now it's done. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 16:14, 11 June 2019 (UTC).
Please take a look at the last 15 changes made by MariusBot. I'm waiting for your approval to apply the bot on all templates. Mariusm (talk) 14:00, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm: A very good start, but in some (and only some!) cases your AWB code cuts off one of the leading brackets for adding the category at the very last part of the pages. Instead of producing
Find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference]].[[Category:Reference templates]]</noinclude> (example)
it produces
Find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference]].[Category:Reference templates]]</noinclude> (example)
which of course breaks the category call. Other than that I think it looks good. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:47, 15 June 2019 (UTC).
@Mariusm: Here, could it replace the code &#38; with &? Korg (talk) 15:00, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
@Korg: It's a quirk of {{BASEPAGENAME}} which I can't temper with. HTML-wise it's perfectly legal. what's your opinion on this? As for the missing square bracket, I'll look into it. Mariusm (talk) 15:20, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

This turns out to be a difficult chore! So many variants on the ref template theme! Please look again at the last 20 MariusBot changes.Mariusm (talk) 16:18, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing, Tommy Kronkvist, and Korg: I've made 100 edits using an improved algorithm. Please check the last 100 edits made by MariusBot. I suspend further edits until I'm getting a green light. Mariusm (talk) 16:10, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
LGTM; thank you. If we can't resolve the encoded ampersand issue (in which case, maybe another bot run, later?), I think we should go ahead. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:10, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
Looks a good plan. Great discussion way beyond my head, however, its the results that count. Thanks Andyboorman (talk) 20:25, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
The encoded ampersand is also produced in the newly made "official" reference-templates, done with the aid of {{subst:reftemp}}, so we have no choice but to consider "&#38;" legal. Mariusm (talk) 10:13, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

## Author templates

Is it now consensus to remove and then delete author templates, such as Gaertner, J.? Andyboorman (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Your example is actually literally termed "Template:Gaertn.". It performs as redirect page leading to Joseph Gaertner author page in our present format. Sometimes as two-stage redirect. Bit cumbersome in our present programming style. All I have looked at seem to be superfluous in our present system.
Another apparent function is in numerous transclusions to taxon pages, where they are used to build non-templated reference citations.
Simple mass deletion will lead to confusion, as no disambiguation of similar names will result. Would have to be handled manually, case-by-case, without bots. Neferkheperre (talk) 13:02, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
This all goes to show that these sorts of side projects can lead to confusion and unwanted complications. My advice is that editors come to the pump to discuss and justify. If accepted by consensus then the procedures can go up onto the Help Section. Not that this is likely to happen, of course! Cynical me. Andyboorman (talk) 13:32, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I just did some wider sampling, and have learned more. Most are quite old, up to 15 years. However, some are still being created, as recently as last month. All appear to be botanists. I see very many of these templates are named using IPNI code. As a whole, they belong to an older style generation. I run across these older styles frequently, as we have been creating new shortcuts and styles. There are still vast numbers of non-templated reference citations using at least three forms of software. Neferkheperre (talk) 14:47, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Well as a botanist all I can say is desist, PLEASE. Create no more. See previous discussion as well. Good luck with the cleans ups and updates! Andyboorman (talk) 15:19, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Previous discussion was archived to Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 49#Names in reference templates. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:20, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I agree with Andy Boorman and would strongly advise against creating new templates like these. I always change "shorthand" author templates such as e.g. {{Gaertn.}} into the complete and standard form {(a|Joseph Gaertner|Gaertner, J.}} when I come across them. On top of that many of the present "shorthand templates" use unrecommended (and most often also malformed) HTML and CSS code instead of wiki code, and I always "wikify" the ones I find (example). I would urge all users to to the same, and then perhaps one day, when no longer used, we can delete them all. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 16:24, 3 June 2019 (UTC).

## A proposal for WikiJournals to become a new sister project

Over the last few years, the WikiJournal User Group has been building and testing a set of peer reviewed academic journals on a mediawiki platform. The main types of articles are:

• Existing Wikipedia articles submitted for external review and feedback (example)
• From-scratch articles that, after review, are imported to Wikipedia (example)
• Original research articles that are not imported to Wikipedia (example)

Proposal: WikiJournals as a new sister project

From a Wikipedian point of view, this is a complementary system to Featured article review, but bridging the gap with external experts, implementing established scholarly practices, and generating citable, doi-linked publications.

Please take a look and support/oppose/comment! Evolution and evolvability (talk) 04:18, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Looks good. Dan Koehl (talk) 23:24, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
This has the potential to become the next Zootaxa (but fully open access) if enough papers are submitted to warrant spinning off into its own WikiJournal. OhanaUnitedTalk page 19:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
No issue with the idea of the sister project idea. However I have concerns about it as a journal per se. I do think its a good idea. But it has a couple of problems to overcome with regards to what we do here. That is nomenclature. Under the code electronic jounals must meet certain requirements to be ble to publish nomenclatural acts, one of these is they must be fully archived, hence all electronic journals list in each issue the archiving agency for the edition of the the journal. Second they must declare this information (in the case of animals) with Zoobank. I have not been able to determine if this journal is aware of this. Another issue is that to be considered a pubnlication for the purpose of nomenclature the final published product must be unaltered from then on. This issue I note was brought up on the Wiki Science journal page in a discussion here.
Of course the journal could get around this by refusing to publish any articles that contain nomenclatural acts, this would make the code irrelevant to them. No problem. But I do not see any evidence that this is a recognised issue. Just some thoughts from me. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 15:41, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

## subst question

Does anyone have a clue why {{subst:BASEPAGENAME}} doesn't work when typed in a reference template, yet it works when {{Reftemp}} is used (in the form of {{subst:Reftemp}})? Mariusm (talk) 09:25, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Specifically, {{subst:BASEPAGENAME}} doesn't work when it's preceded by <includeonly>Mariusm (talk) 13:59, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Probably because (theorizing here) the subst: is, y'know, literally not processed if it's not actually being included on the page you're substituting on? Have you checked out m:Help:Substitution and ( somewhat more accessible) en:Help:Substitution? Circeus (talk) 01:52, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
@Mariusm and Circeus: The main reason is probably that substitution is primarily intended for templates. Regardless of its format {{BASEPAGENAME}} isn't a template, it's a magic word in the same way as for example {{DEFAULTSORT}}. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:26, 18 June 2019 (UTC).
True. While variables can be substituted, it seems likely that the rules aren't quite the same. Circeus (talk) 02:18, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

## CMNC & CMNO

Hi guys, @PeterR:! Are CMNC and CMNO the same institution?--Roy17 (talk) 09:36, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello @Roy17: Please note that PeterR hasn't logged in for almost two weeks. In the meantime, the Canadian Museum of Nature's webpage doesn't give any obvious information on the CMNC${\displaystyle \not \equiv }$CMNO question but perhaps their Research & Collections page is good place to start further investigation. Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 12:23, 15 June 2019 (UTC).
I'm about 98% sure they are the same. There sure aren't two institutions with that name in Ottawa! I've also seen it referred as just CMN. Peter, asfar as I know, doesn't usually bother to attempt any sort of normalizing of abbreviations. Circeus (talk) 16:46, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes it's the same institution. OhanaUnitedTalk page 03:09, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
Then they should be merged into one, and the left-over page changed to a redirect page. Which of the two pages should have preference over the other? –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:06, 18 June 2019 (UTC).

## ISSN pages

Do we really need pages such as ISSN 1055-7903/127? This one at least is duplicate of reference template. There are many more similar. Neferkheperre (talk) 19:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

In my opinion another side project and I cannot find a use for such pages. Perhaps can enlighten us. Andyboorman (talk) 08:09, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
I can't. I am posting every new publication template that I create of Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution just because the classification by edition number was there previously. If the edition number is not there, I create it. Useful or not? I don't know. For me there is no difference in having just one publication in the list or 100, like this ISSN 1175-5326/2014.1, it may only mean that editors are not using. The question is: is there any value in having all the publications of certain journal edition, year or quarter in one place?--Hector Bottai (talk) 12:00, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
In my opinion such pages aren't useful. They are bound to be incomplete, and are diverting our efforts to unproductive chores. Mariusm (talk) 16:19, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Mariusm. Do mass delete do any damage to the fundamentals of WS? Just asking. Andyboorman (talk) 20:38, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Also agreed: the /subpages don't do much unless we turn them into something, like a table of contents with links to PDFs. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:16, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── The first few hundreds of these ISSN sub-pages where created by User:Stho002. The majority of them consists of an endless amount of links to templates using an unrecommended naming scheme, e.g. ISSN 1175-5326/2012.2 which lists a total of no less than 925 {{Zt}}-templates (plus 21 links to templates with "normal" names which in most cases started out with "Zt"-names but has since been renamed/moved to standard names, mainly by Mariusm and me). I've been wanting to get rid of these ISSN sub-pages for years, just haven't got around to bringing it up here at the Pump yet. As a side note, please be aware that any type of mass-renaming of the "Zt"-templates can be tricky since quite of few of them contain inline references to other (incorrectly as well as correctly named) reference templates. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:01, 18 June 2019 (UTC).

Also, none of these Zt templates are in proper format. No author links, and all authors past #3 are not treated at all. Much work to do. Really, these ISSN subpages are one handy way to see all of the Zt templates in order. Neferkheperre (talk) 23:08, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

## Standardize the reference templates please!

I still see that some editors aren't using {{subst:reftemp}} in their reference templates. They still are painstakingly entering all the data manually and not according to standards we strive for. See for example PeterR's Template:Deuve, 2001a. Would you please make use of {{Reftemp}} in your ref templates ?? Mariusm (talk) 16:20, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the advise. I confesse had no idea of the existence of this tool. Please supply one example of the utilization, including the Nomenclatural acts section.--Hector Bottai (talk) 00:00, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

@Hector Bottai and PeterR: and others: the reference template composition procedure is simple:

1. Compose the reference template without any additions. Example:
* {{a|John Richard Abbott|Abbott, J.R.}} 2011. Notes on the disintegration of ''Polygala'' (Polygalaceae) with four new genera for the flora of North America. ''[[ISSN 1934-5259|Journal of the Botanical Research Institute of Texas]]'' 5: 125–137. [http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/50442687 BHL]

Which dispays as:

2. add at the end of the reference: {{subst:reftemp}} without any spaces.

For the above example it will be:
* {{a|John Richard Abbott|Abbott, J.R.}} 2011. Notes on the disintegration of ''Polygala'' (Polygalaceae) with four new genera for the flora of North America. ''[[ISSN 1934-5259|Journal of the Botanical Research Institute of Texas]]'' 5: 125–137. [http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/50442687 BHL]{{subst:reftemp}}

3. Publish the template. The result would be:
* {{a|John Richard Abbott|Abbott, J.R.}} 2011. Notes on the disintegration of ''Polygala'' (Polygalaceae) with four new genera for the flora of North America. ''[[ISSN 1934-5259|Journal of the Botanical Research Institute of Texas]]'' 5: 125–137. [http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/50442687 BHL] <includeonly>[[Template:Abbott, 2011|Reference page]].</includeonly> <noinclude> ** [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:{{BASEPAGENAME}}|Find all Wikispecies pages which cite this reference]].[[Category:Reference templates]]</noinclude>

Which will display as:

Thanks for complying with the above procedure. Mariusm (talk) 15:11, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

@Mariusm: Many thanks, understood, applied succesfully.--Hector Bottai (talk) 02:49, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Please note that if you want to include "Nomenclatural acts" in your ref template, you should type {{subst:ReftempZt}} instead of {{subst:reftemp}}. In this case you need to proceed in two stages: (1) Save the template with the ReftempZt subst but without the Nomenclatural acts. (2) Reedit the template and add the data for the "Nomenclatural acts" section. Mariusm (talk) 10:34, 20 June 2019 (UTC)