User talk:Cloud forest

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Welcome to Wikispecies![edit]

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Please sign your comments on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username (if you're logged in) and the date. Please also read the Wikispecies policy What Wikispecies is not. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or in the Village Pump. Again, welcome! -- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:54, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Requests for Comment page[edit]

I've undone your edit to Wikispecies:Requests for Comment. That's not what the page is for. What were you trying to achieve? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:01, 25 April 2019 (UTC)


I have bocked you from editing. You have been asked, on this page and on Wikispecies:Village Pump, to explain your edits, whose purpose is unclear. You have not yet done so.

You can be unblocked and allowed to resume editing once you give a satisfactory explanation, and providing that explanation accords with Wikispecies' purpose.

You can still edit this page, so please reply here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:37, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I try to achieve consensus between Wikispecies, Wikiversity and Wikipedia.Cloud forest (talk) 11:47, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Should I help or wait the taxa turns into blue?Cloud forest (talk) 17:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Cloud Forest, Wikispecies is a taxonomic "database" site, and the page for each taxon has a standardised format with particular format and layout conventions. We also list references at the bottom, so that others can check on the relevant literature. There is no need to achieve a "consensus" with other Wiki sites. The data included on pages in WikiSpecies is drawn only from published documents dealing with species taxonomy, nothing else. If you can show that you understand what contributions are appropriate, then you can be reinstated for a trial period. Accassidy (talk) 19:00, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Wikispecies makes a great work. I don´t want to disturbe you. Is it possible to go ahead with the systematics on my user page? Consensus between Sisterprojects is needed. ThanksCloud forest (talk) 19:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi Cloudforest, one of the issues I have with this is that I do not see any referencing in the arrangements your making. I do not see what your trying to do here on Wikispecies. The above is just a block of names, what is the authority for that arrangement. I get you want consensus between the different Wikimedia projects. Often very difficult, on Wikipedia far more opinion can be included on the nomenclatures they use, hence this causes problems with us. Mainly because we use names according to the most up to date and accepted reviews and major changes must be sourced to appropriate literature that supports the changes. Sometimes it can take several years for a particular arrangement of names to settle. Sometimes proposals are scrapped almost immediately. You are welcome to place this material on your own page, in fact I would encourage it but also include the literature. We need to see the evidence that this is a generally accepted change to the nomenclature with a basis in science. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 19:37, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
I´m an active participant in Wikiversity (a sister project), the systematics used is the current information posted in Wikipedia and in Wikispecies. I´m learning not working like you.Cloud forest (talk) 19:50, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Cloud Forest, it also seems like you're not a native English speaker. If you're willing to share what your language background is, there may be a user here who can communicate more effectively with you and figure out what you're trying to do. I am personally interested in it but I agree with Andy that your edits are very confusing and we need to have some idea of what you're proposing. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:57, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I was born in Colombia, Biology student with interest in Systematics. Since 10 years I live in Berlin.Cloud forest (talk) 22:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Good morning! Guten morgen! Buenos dias! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cloud forest (talkcontribs) 10:47, 30 April 2019‎ (UTC).
Good morning! Guten morgen! Buenos dias! Cloud forest (talk) 09:45, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Nuevamente: ¿explicaría el propósito de sus ediciones? Gracias. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 00:42, 10 May 2019 (UTC).
It is a call-laboration on the e-laboration. Cloud forest (talk) 04:50, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
May I suggest that you continue your work solely on the Draft: Life-Tree Project page at Wikiversity? The reason is that the format and type of lists you create here at your Wikispecies user talk page will never be used on any Wikispecies taxon pages – therefore your edits here are rather pointless. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 00:30, 12 May 2019 (UTC).
Is there a collaboration within Wikispecies and Wikipedia on the elaboration of the Taxobox? Cloud forest (talk) 05:37, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
@Tommy Kronkvist: I think these edits are not welcome at Wikiversity either. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:21, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Oh I see. Thank you for your advisory notice and link. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:08, 15 May 2019 (UTC).

───────────────────────── @Cloud forest: No, there is no collaboration within Wikispecies and Wikipedia on the elaboration of the Taxobox. The simple reason is that Wikispecies does not use Taxobox. Yes, we still have the old "Taxobox" template saved here on Wikispecies, but that's merely for compatibility reasons. This is also noted on the Taxobox template page, where it clearly says "Please note that this template is since long deprecated and should never be used on Wikispecies". –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:08, 15 May 2019 (UTC).

The size and scope of your user talk page[edit]

You should know that in terms of the amount of text, your user talk page here is now one of the largest pages in Wikimedia. Please be aware that pages of this size may temporary make your web browser seem very sluggish, and may also cause your operating system to temporarily fail ("hang") due to the heavy workload and cache memory needed. Also, please note that your contributions to this talk page are out of scope of Wikispecies' purpose and intentions, and extending it may result in you being blocked from editing it further, and the talk page itself being erased. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 21:17, 1 October 2019 (UTC).

I agree with Tommy, I have noticed this page growing and also wonder at the purpose of it. Most of this material is of no use to Wikispecies it is outside our scope. If you are storing it for another project such as Wikipedia, then I would suggest it be stored there. I would like to request an explanation or the removal of the material. Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 23:32, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Good Morning to You. What can I understand under Directory (it is something like the Yellow Pages: Name and Location on the Literature?
Why not to offer an Inventory? (something like Green Pages: Names and Location on Earth). Cloud forest (talk) 07:38, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
@Cloud forest and Faendalimas:
  1. Wikispecies is only a database for taxa, taxonomy, biological systematics, nomenclature and type repositories, plus citations and information about the authors and references needed to verify that data. Nothing else. Everything else is better suited for Wikipedia, and will never be part of Wikispecies.
  2. About your "Green Pages" idea: the taxon names are already included in Wikispecies. Their location on Earth is of no value to the taxonomy, and therefore should not be listed in Wikispecies (see previous point).
  3. Wikispecies is in itself an inventory, with all relevant data linked from the Wikispecies Main Page. However listing all of that information on one single page (for example your user talk page) is not a good idea. That's like merging all of English Wikipedia's currently 5,940,889 articles into one page (or a grand total of 51,211,365 articles into one page, if counting all the different Wikipedias). Quite frankly that's ridiculous and also defies the whole idea behind the site, since the purpose of Wikimedia is to make information not only free but also easy to find. A single huge inventory containing everything wouldn't be helpful in that aspect.
Regards, Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 19:20, 2 October 2019 (UTC).
And splitting it into three. Fauna, Flora, Funga? Cloud forest (talk) 19:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
@Tommy Kronkvist: has laid it out for you above and I agree with his three points. Splitting your data into three may reduce the volume of each of them but does not address the value of the information and relevance of it to Wikispecies.
As such unless I hear different from another administrator I request that the material be removed to a more suitable location. Be it incorporating it into Wikipedia if they are interested or a site of your own. I will give you some time (1 week) to move it yourself. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 19:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
The Inventories are available on Wikiversity yet. Wikipedia could be the right Place. Cloud forest (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

I removed the vast majority of it. Your user talk page is for discussion with you and about your edits, not just a dumping ground of whatever you want. You can userfy some of this content but please be aware that pages that exceed 100 kb (and especially 200 kb) may be inaccessible to other users with spotty Internet connections or low processing power on their devices. Wikispecies isn't free hosting and even in the user namespace, it's expected that the content will be constructive toward building this database. —Justin (koavf)TCM 20:34, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

The intention using a page on Wikispecies is to coroborate the taxa found on Wikipedia.Cloud forest (talk) 20:49, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure I fully know what you mean, but if I understand you correctly: we and all the rest of Wikimedia use Wikidata for this. Please see Wikispecies:Project Wikidata for details. We've used it for years, and it works very well. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 15:00, 3 October 2019 (UTC).
Sorry that You find the One-Sheet Inventories useless. It is possible as seen.Cloud forest (talk) 15:42, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
First of all, what I personally believe is not important. My actions are the result of an ongoing discussion with the whole community, or at least the part of the community that is actively contributing to the project. Secondly, of course a "one-sheet inventory" would be possible here at Wikispecies too. It's just that we don't see any practical need for it. The current system is based upon how encyclopaedias, written registers and databases has been working for literary thousands of years, and there's no point in trying to change a working system. You are free to create an inventory of your own if you want to, but you will have to use another web site for that. Here at Wikispecies both you and me have to follow the rules of this wiki. We have more than 2,8 million registered users, and Wikispecies wouldn't work if they all tried to implement there own systems. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 08:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC).

On your new design[edit]


as has been pointed out to you by @Koavf and Tommy Kronkvist: and myself, part of the issue is the size and the usability of this. Stuck on your personal talk page only you are going to read it, so is that of value to the project? Not really. Hence we are supplying resources to something that is not being used. If you wish to do something like this and feel we should have it available to users my view is develop it on sandbox page then propose it to the community, an RfC would be one means. We can discuss it and then decide if we will utilise it through consensus. If it is deemed appropriate it will become a page that is linked to and used and can be maintained, if not it would be deleted. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 14:04, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Can I continue on the Sandbox please? Cloud forest (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Thank you all.Cloud forest (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
@Faendalimas: The user is currently blocked, with the exception that they may edit their own user talk page. The software doesn't admit excluding any other pages from a block. This limitation encompasses all other Wikispecies pages, including user sub pages and sandboxes.
Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 15:54, 10 October 2019 (UTC).
Sorry I did not look and hence did not realise he was blocked. I looked though at @Andy's: reasons and have to say I agree with him. So it is up to Cloud Forest to convince Andy of this based on the reasons for the block provided. I am also not convinced the user is making any genuine effort to address these issues in any case. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 21:09, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
@Faendalimas: I agree to all of those points. Please also see the user's cross-wiki block logs: you can use this Meta page as a starting point for that. As for me I will let this issue rest for a while until the user submits some sort of viable proof of concept that demonstrates why the community needs this private project to move to main namespace. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 00:50, 11 October 2019 (UTC).