Wikispecies:Requests for Comment

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Atinga Genus

Should Atinga be created as a page? WoRMS states the genus as having no valid species, IRMNG says something different, what do i do? (i have the page majority finished already) Remis4000 (talk) 08:42, 14 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You could create the page using the {{Disputed}} tag and add a note explaining the differences between WORMS and IRMNG. Andyboorman (talk) 10:16, 14 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Andyboorman @Remis4000 IRMNG's records for Atinga's species are likely outdated; they were created using WoRMS as a basis back in 2013. In any case, IMO it is better to use the actual scientific literature as sources rather than databases. Monster Iestyn (talk) 17:20, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some databases are as definitive and even more reliable (mostly) compared to scientific literature, for example IPNI for plants. Andyboorman (talk) 21:30, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, the scientific literature was also ambigious, so I went to databases to find a precedent that was agreed upon, but couldn't find one. Remis4000 (talk) 11:31, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Typical disputed taxon. Rare, but not unusual and WS can not take sides when the name of a taxon is disputed. Andyboorman (talk) 11:45, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Andyboorman @Remis4000: According to {{Leis, 2006}} (page 83) Atinga Le Danois 1954 is a synonym of Chilomycterus (or rather specifically, "Atlantic Chilomycterus"), giving the following reasoning:

"The species upon which Atinga Le Danois (1954, ref. 6451) is based is unclear. The type species, D. atringa Linnaeus (1758, ref. 2787), is not identifiable (see above under C. reticulatus). It is clear that Le Danoisʼ (1954, ref. 6451; 1959, ref. 12003; 1962, 21440) concept of atinga included a species of the “Atlantic Chilomycterus” group, although which species is unclear as her illustrations of Atinga atinga atinga in the 1954 paper are of C. antillarum (identified as male) and C. spinosus mauretanicus (identified as female). In view of this confusion about the identity of the type species, use of Atinga Le Danois (1954: ref. 6451) is not recommended. It has been little used since its description."

Looking at databases other than IRMNG and WoRMS, Atinga is treated as a synonym of Chilomycterus on ITIS since 2017 [1], and in Eschmeyer's Catalog of Fishes (you will have to search for Atinga to see for yourself), and in Fishbase all Atinga species are now placed in Chilomycterus or Cyclichthys.

So the way I see it, this isn't actually "disputed" at all: Atinga is a synonym of Chilomycterus, IRMNG is just lagging behind (its current focus is on generic names and not species anyway) and WoRMS is clearly in error not synonymizing Atinga under Chilomycterus even though Atinga's type species is now a synonym!!! I actually have permissions to fix IRMNG's record myself, meanwhile you or someone else will need to email the WoRMS contributors to get their error fixed. Monster Iestyn (talk) 15:58, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there is a possible catch, Leis, 2006 also says that "Atlantic Chilomycterus" could use the name Lyosphaera Evermann and Kendall (1898), but they recommend against the latter's use until a cladistic analysis of the species group has been undertaken. I haven't checked yet if such an analysis has been undertaken since this paper. Monster Iestyn (talk) 16:04, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Monster Iestyn for making the required IRMNG change. Actually (second guessing from the audit trail there) it looks like that record was originally created in IRMNG as a synonym, then later "auto adjusted" to be an accepted name per the WoRMS record which was erroneous, now it is correct again... these things happen! In any case, I would normally take the Eschmeyer/Cat. of Fishes record as representing/capturing the best available "current expert opinion" (unless one can spot a clear error there of course), and if a database does not conform, normally it will be for latency reasons as stated above. WoRMS is, of course, pretty good in its stated area of operation, but the odd error can always be spotted and as needed, referred to the admins for passing on to a relevant editor for action.

In this case the relevant entry in Eschmeyer (my "bible" for extant fish taxa) reads:

Atinga Le Danois [Y.] 1954:2356 [Comptes Rendus Hebdomadaires des Séances de l'Académie des Sciences v. 238 (no. 24); ref. 6451] Fem. Diodon atringa Linnaeus 1758. Type by monotypy; one species but four subspecies; type is the nominate subspecies. Le Danois apparently misspelled Linnaeus' species as atinga. See also Leis & Bauchot 1984:85 [ref. 12539]. Also Appendix A in Eschmeyer 1990 [ref. 20647]. •In the synonymy of a temporary category "Atlantic Chilomycterus" -- (Leis 2006:82-83 [ref. 28932]). Current status: Synonym of Chilomycterus Brisout de Barneville 1846. Diodontidae.

@Remis4000 per the above information in Eschmeyer, I would recommend either deleting the discrete WikiSpecies page for Atinga as not needed (do we create new pages for synonyms?) or alternatively turn it into a redirect. As stated above, the IRMNG pages for its previously assigned species are not maintained (since 2013) and not a reliable source in this instance (the history is explained above...). Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 18:04, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Poll about fossil, extinct, and extant taxa in taxon lists

Please note the poll at the Village Pump, to standardize the listing of fossil, recently extinct and extant taxa. You can read more and vote at: Wikispecies:Village Pump#"Paleospecies". Kind regards, Thiotrix (talk) 11:30, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Poll closed on January 3, 2026. --Thiotrix (talk) 10:14, 4 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Categories on Redirects

As this is the issue in an Edit War here, what are peoples views on categories on redirects? Lavalizard101 (talk) 18:58, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Categories on redirects are fine IMO. Taxa by author categories for instance are useful when you want to find out which taxon names and how many were named by a particular taxon author, even if the names aren't currently valid (which are currently usually treated as redirects on Wikispecies, though I have seen Village Pump discussions before suggesting they be treated as pages themselves). In some cases most of a taxon author's list of taxon names are currently synonyms (maybe all of them in some extreme cases?), so to get rid of all categories on redirects may inadvertantly clear out an author's taxa by author category entirely. Monster Iestyn (talk) 20:14, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Did "Pierre Edmond Boissier" create the name (or equally the combination) which now is a redirect. I think the answer is yes? Therefore, even if the wikispecies entry for that is now simply a redirect, it's still ascribable to them [as a category] for names created by them surely? Sjl197 (talk) 20:41, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, thats what me and Kevmin were saying but AbeCK is saying otherwise, btw I didn't realise but AbeCK had already opened up a discussion about this at VP: Village Pump#Redirect management. Lavalizard101 (talk) 21:11, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Categories on Redirects are absolutely necessary: taxa by author of synonyms, obsolete taxa and others, are very useful and organizers. Why this discussion again?--Hector Bottai (talk) 21:50, 15 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

This issue is resolved and categories can be added to redirect pages at the editors discretion. See Pump. Andyboorman (talk) 09:23, 16 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

speedy deleting to make redirects

See discussion Wikispecies:Administrators' noticeboard#A Speedy Delete, a discussion is ongoing regaridng deleting articles just to recreate them as redirects. Lavalizard101 (talk) 19:00, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to allow global sysops on this project

So, given because of Special:Contributions/HiroAkikun and User_talk:SHB2000#Abuse_filter_setup?, I would like to propose allowing global sysops on this project. Generally, they can quickly deal with clear cases of blatant vandalism and spam (such as blocking vandals/LTAs/spammers and deleting pages under speedy deletion) and non-controversial maintenance, but otherwise they will not have control over content or the community, nor will they handle controversial matters.

Wikispecies:Administrators can be eventually updated to include what global sysops can and cannot do. As such, I believe they should be permitted to act only in urgent situations when no local administrators are active.

Thanks. Codename Noreste (talk) 22:22, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't object, but I don't see how Special:Contributions/HiroAkikun is particularly extraordinary: he was blocked by me within two hours. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:44, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

No objection. Any help is welcome, although I don't see a severe lack of reactivity from administrators, some of these global sysops might possess potentially useful technical skills. Christian Ferrer (talk) 08:15, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

No objections at all. Andyboorman (talk) 09:16, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't disagree with allowing global sysops. I just don't understand how allowing global sysops have anything to do with block promote functionality in edit filters. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 01:36, 15 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

No objections here. Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) ^talk 07:17, 15 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Changes requested to the stewards. As I am not a regular user here, someone else should feel free to update Wikispecies:Administrators regarding the expectations of global sysops, accordingly. Codename Noreste (talk) 15:46, 16 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Done I added the text. Christian Ferrer (talk) 16:55, 17 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Enable the abuse filter block action?

Given because of the everyday vandalism by the Notepad vandal, I would like to propose enabling the abuse filter block action in this project. In general, we should only use it on local filters which have virtually no false positives, and only in clear cases of LTA abuse. Thoughts? Codename Noreste (talk) 18:29, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support from me. I myself ask for it since a few time. This is clearly needed for the case like the vandal we have since now a quite ling time, e.g. [2]. I guess that this vandal seems so motivated that he might still manage to do these things despite a filter block action, however this would give us an additional chance to complicate his task. Christian Ferrer (talk) 22:04, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree in particular with the case mentioned who has been a problem. I have also thought the filters could be set to deal with cases like this. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) ^talk 02:12, 21 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Also seems a good idea to me. Andyboorman (talk) 09:07, 21 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I concur that it seems a good idea, but should be used with care. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:00, 23 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

That’s the whole point of my proposal – it should be used on filters that handle clear cases of LTA abuse. Codename Noreste (talk) 17:03, 23 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]