Template talk:Subg

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Improvement[edit]

Keith Edkins originally developed the following template:

[[{{{1}}}{{{2}}} subg. {{{3}}}|{{{1}}}. subg. {{{3}}}]] -

I have noticed that individuals have been manually entering [[Genus (Subgenus)|G. (Subgenus)] ]; which produced G. (Subgenus) as text on the document.

Keith Edkins' template was not doing this, so I changed it...

Below is the improved template:
[[{{{1}}}{{{2}}} ({{{3}}})|{{{1}}}. ({{{3}}})]] -

I hope that this improvement is not shot down... I believe it had to be done this way. Totipotent 06:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Reconsider?[edit]

I see that I may have affected up to 119 pages with this change (all seemingly Plantae)... Should we keep the original and adopt another template name (i.e., Asubg) for the improved version? Or should those 119 pages be updated to this improved template and the end result would be a few weird pages (i.e., Genus_Subg._Subgenus) deleted after transferring over the text to the more correct Genus_(Subgenus)?

The way to locate the affected pages type subg. into the search box. Totipotent 07:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

From English Wikipedia:
In biology, a subgenus is a taxon at a rank directly below genus. See rank (botany) and rank (zoology).
In zoology, a subgeneric name can be used independently or included in a species name, in brackets, placed between the generic and specific name: e.g. the Tiger Cowry of the Indo-Pacific, Cypraea (Cypraea) tigris Linnaeus, which belongs to the subgenus Cypraea of the genus Cypraea. However, it is not mandatory, or even customary, when giving the name of a species, to include the subgeneric name.
Note also that a name included in brackets is also sometimes used to indicate differences of taxonomic opinion, e.g. the Northern Gannet, Sula (Morus) bassana where it means that some taxonomists treat the species in the genus Sula, while others split it off into a separate genus Morus.
To me -in view of consistency- the correct way for us is your template. Whether this is fully correct is another discussion. Perhaps both are. At the moment both versions are being used. Kempm 07:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Personally I think Genus Subg. Subgenus makes more sense than the weird Genus (Subgenus). Historically, everything was written in the same way... Genus Species var. Subspecies, Genus Species ssp. Subspecies, etc. Why the need for a change? Further En.wikipedia already detects a problem, when some taxonomists reserve the proposed change to show an alternative genus. Kempm 07:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
It is good to have the discussion. At least for plants, the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature says the following, which agrees with the template as it was. Open2universe 19:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

21.1. The name of a subdivision of a genus is a combination of a generic name and a subdivisional epithet. A connecting term (subgenus, sectio, series, etc.) is used to denote the rank.

21.2. The epithet is either of the same form as a generic name, or a noun in the genitive plural, or a plural adjective agreeing in gender with the generic name, but not a noun in the genitive singular. It is written with an initial capital letter (see Art. 32.5 and 60.2).

21.3. The epithet in the name of a subdivision of a genus is not to be formed from the name of the genus to which it belongs by adding the prefix Eu-.

Ex. 1. Costus subg. Metacostus; Ricinocarpos sect. Anomodiscus; Valeriana sect. Valerianopsis; Euphorbia sect. Tithymalus; Pleione subg. Scopulorum; Euphorbia subsect. Tenellae; Sapium subsect. Patentinervia; Arenaria ser. Anomalae; but not Carex sect. "Eucarex".

See [1]

Not sure if this is authoritve, but ICZN is at least trying to be authoritive for zoological nomenclature...
Article 6.1 [2]: Names of subgenera. The scientific name of a subgenus, when used with a binomen or trinomen, must be interpolated in parentheses between the generic name and the specific name; it is not counted as one of the words in the binomen or trinomen. It must begin with an upper-case letter.
So does this means two different templates? --Kempm 20:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I took the liberty to create Template:Subgplant and Template:Subgplantlast. Used them here: Dendroceros and Anthoceros. If we agree then we can update Current_events#Taxon_Formatting_Templates. Also there is a template Template:var and Template:varlast. Perhaps there are more. --Kempm 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Kempm. I believe your course of action has been the solution to this debate. In addition, I feel we can now update Current_events#Taxon_Formatting_Templates. Totipotent 20:37, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I will go ahead then and add the new template to the various plant species that are using the old one. Open2universe 12:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC)