User talk:UtherSRG

From Wikispecies

I can also be contacted at w:en:User talk:UtherSRG, but you should feel free to leave me a message here. - UtherSRG 15:50, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Heroini 2 blocking policy 3 Good morning 4 Soldier green 5 Vernacular names 6 Whither Search? 7 Mammal subclasses 8 Vernacular names, again 9 Unplaced Didelphimorpha Genera 10 Thanks 11 Chinese vandalism 12 Admin 13 blanking pages 14 Orchids 15 Common name redirects 16 Puma 17 Insecta 18 Arabic 19 Insertae sedis 20 Deletion request 21 Tetrapodomorpha Insertae sedis 22 Username change request 23 Logo discussion

[edit] Heroini

Why did you obliterate the 5 major lineages??? That way we lose most of what we know of the group! - Gacp

I do not find those lineages in a Google search. I find Heroini, and I find the genera. - UtherSRG 20:00, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And? Did you find my thesis "Phylogeny and biogeographical history of the cichlid tribe Heroini" (2002)? Sorry, it's off the web right now :-(, it was online and will be back ASAP. For now, check this old page http://golab.unl.edu/projects/Cichlidae/ About the thesis: no prob, it's copyleft--ready for a big upload of 250+ pp.? - Gacp

That's exactly the resource I used. Tribe Heroini, with a South & Meso American split (not formal groupings) for several genera. One's own personal work that is unpublished (in hard or electronic format) I find to be unacceptable source material. If you can't point to something that someone can use to verify your edits, you might want to reconsider your edits. I can point to the UNL cichlid site and know that it's at least something people can use to double check the edits I've made. - UtherSRG 20:00, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

PS. Please use ~~~~ to sign your "talk" edits. - UtherSRG 20:00, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Concheiro Perez, G.A. 2002. Phylogeny and biogeographical history of the tribe Heroini Kullander, 1998 (Perciformes; Cichlidae; Cichlinae). MS Thesis, University of Nebraska at Lincoln, USA.

Will be again on line as soon as I solve the issue with the hosting. -gacp

[edit] blocking policy

hi, have you ever thought about the sense of blocking dynamic IPs as "indefinite" or for 1 week? please see Special:Log/block and look after the identification of the IPs with http://www.ripe.net/fcgi-bin/whois -- perhaps you can read en:IP address and en:Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol so that you learn that it is absolutely nonsense to block dynamimc IPs for more than 1 or 2 days, normally an hour is enough because you can get a new IP with every new login.

I also wanted to write to Benedikt, but he was already informed there.

thx, peter 02:29, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Good morning

I did my best to ward off the vandalism last night, but there's still a bit of backlog in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. Andrevan 14:39, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Soldier green

Sorry for the change of Ara militaris, I was actually tring to make Ara hyacinthinus, although this species is not in the list on page Ara, meybe it belongs somewehere else now? Dan Koehl 13:22, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, misunderstanding here. Ara militaris was ok I think, can be undeleted! (I just changed it wrong, but after you restored the file it as correct. Dan Koehl 14:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vernacular names

Hi UtherSRG. First of all, thanks for welcoming me to the site. This is my first few edits on Wiki in general, so I don't really know anything about Wiki politics yet...

You left me a message saying not to put in links to vernacular names (like no:Hjort) when the page it links to does not exist. Is this a wikispecies policy, or a personal opinion? Has there been any discussion on this that I can read up on?

My personal opinion about it is that it shouldn't matter whether the page exists or not. When looking at a wikispecies page, people might wonder what this species (genus, family, whatever) is called in a given language. I want to put that information there, regardless of whether or not there is a page in the given wikipedia. I can't see any good reason for this information not to be there. Please enlighten me.

I thought at first that it was the dead link you didn't like, so I tried adding the name without link. Apparently, you didn't like that either, since you just removed it (this time without telling me).

Is the criterion simply that the page I link to exists? What if I create a skeleton page for someone to fill in the future, would that help?

Thanks. User:Sverre 22:15, August 13, 2005 (GMT)

Hi UtherSRG,
Thanks for your welcoming message. I also got a similar message from you as Sverre above, so I decided to reply here:
I'm sorry if I acted against a Wikispecies rule. I (mis?)understood the Vernacular names section in exactly the same way as Sverre above. The introduction is not clear about whether it is bad to link to a non-existing article, but I won't do it again if it's not taken well. As you can see, Sverre has not made a single contribution since the week you told him to stop interlinking. I hope that was not the reason he left Wikispecies, but I would understand it.
I thought information about the name of a species in many languages would not belong in the Wikipedia, as it is not a dictionary, nor in the Wiktionary, as it is impossible to browse taxonomically there, so I thought this kind of information would fit in Wikispecies. I now see there is no place for it in the Wiki world.
What use is Wikispecies if it is for speakers of Latin exclusively? I don't think it's any good to tell people to first make a Wikipedia page in every language they want for every level in the taxonomic tree they want to take before they dare place a translation in Wikispecies. If you do all that in the Wikipedias, why on earth would anybody need Wikispecies, then?
I do understand that it might be bad to set links to pages that do not (yet) exist. However, I would not like to see all the work I have put into finding out living-language terms undone. Instead, I suggest that I simply remove the linking property out of all concerned contributions, leaving them as plain text. I admit I haven't seen that anywhere on Wikispecies, but I cannot see how it would hurt anybody.
Kind regards, Wikispezi 13:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi UtherSRG,

I was also pointed out not to add non-linking subjects of Japanese vernacular names by admin Ucucha. I agree with what user Sverre and user Wikispezi says.

Wikispecies FAQ says that "Wikispecies is not a fork of Wikipedia" and "Wikispecies aims to feed into the Wikipedias". I thought (and still believe) it means whether link exists or not, Wikispecies should actively propose to Wikipedia. So, I decided to add non-linking subjects. I would like to say the same as user Sverre. It may be all right to wait someone will describe the subjects in the future.

I can find many many red-colored links in Latin names. These are the waiting subjects, aren't they? Could you tell me why the Latin names are welcome and vernacular names are not?MUK 11:23, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

The difference is that the red links are obvious. Anyone knowing the smallest amount about wiki will know that a blue link leads to an existing article, while a red link will lead to article creation. Interwiki links all look the same; one can not tell if it leads to an existing article or not. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:22, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

If you answer MUK, would you also answer me, please? I suggested that I simply remove the linking property out of all concerned contributions, leaving them as plain text. As long as you don't agree, I don't want to start doing that because I'd always have to fear a complete removal of all vernacular names by you, rendering my work useless as Sverre above said you have done with his de-linked VNs. Who are you to make up your own rules? As far as I can tell, there is no concensus on the vernacular names issue yet. On another note, not adding comments to deletions like this can further contribute to irritating users. Not that I challenge this particular edit, but a short explanation would be helpful, even though I see how that would increase work for you.
Despite our differences: thanks for your work on the project, which you seem to carry out in almost bot-like speed. Amazing. ~ Wikispezi 03:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Leaving linkless VNs in place might also ease Wikipedia editors' task of creating articles there, what with taxonavigation and all. ~ Wikispezi 03:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I suppose unlinked vernaculars would be ok, although I dread the collection of possibly unrelated-seeming words and phrases there. Yes, putting in a edit comment is not always easy to do. I try when I can easily copy & paste, but if it's just a revert or other garbage clean up, I'm less likely to do so. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:10, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

That collection of possibly unrelated-seeming words could indeed be a problem. Who will be the authority on 'official' names for a certain language? As a marine biologist, I know several (up to ten) different Dutch names for some species of fish. All but one,—we have legal names in Belgium for fishes, that e.g. have to be use in supermarkets etc.—would be local vernacular and not suited for Wikispecies, I think. — Lycaon 12:37, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

You probably know my stance. I think we should include vernacular names. I think this was the original intention. It is clearly stated in the original template of an article. I think the issue of a collection of possibly unrelated-seeming words is not that big of a problem. If it is a well known species, there will be an article in wikipedia in that language and that should mention all of the possible names and we won't need to keep them all here. I think it is also clear that we should have vernacular names because almost everyone who has come to wikispecies and has added content has tried to add vernacular names. Thanks for listening. Open2universe 14:04, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Vernacular names, where no article exists for interwiking, should go in a "vernacular names" section of the article, like other information, without links. There is no doubting that they are valuable information that should be included in the article. In fact, I would argue that some of the original intent was that these should be included. Sardino 03:29, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Whither Search?

Howdy. Just getting started here, so if I fall short of the style guidelines I encourage you to drop me a note. Does the search feature on this Wiki work at all? It seems to be totally broken. -Wayne Steele

[edit] Mammal subclasses

Hi UtherSRG,

I've started to convert all pages to the Prototheria/Theria system (seems the best-accepted one for now, although I should use Australosphenida/Theriiformes). I have started to run a bot (User:UcuchaBot) to convert "::::::Subclassis: Marsupialia" into "::::::Subclassis: Theria". Please comment if it's not good. Ucucha 11:49, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm also doing Placentalia -> Theria now. I noticed that your Template:Primates does not use the infraclass. I simply changed {Placentalia} into {Theria} for now, but if you want to have Placentalia (infraclass) in the taxonavigation, you'll have to put an extra ":" in all pages. It might be possible to do that with my bot if you want. Maybe the superorder Archonta, Euarchonta or Euarchontoglires can also be included then. Ucucha 13:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Bot at your leisure - I've yet to figure out how to make a bot that works. - UtherSRG 13:11, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

It's not very hard, I think. Should I add the :'s to the Primates (or try it in any case)? Ucucha 13:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure it's not, but I've not ever been given any clear instructions. I'm not sure if I want just the extra ":"s, or if we should expand and add the various superorders below Placentalia. Does MSW3 talk much about the taxons down to the order level, or does it mostly focus on order and below? (I can't tell much given only the Primates chapter.) - UtherSRG 13:21, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vernacular names, again

I see you have removed some vernacular names I added. Please explain why. Thanks. Open2universe 12:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

It is better to not add interwiki links to articles that do not exist. If you are creating these articles on en:, then make the en: article first before creating the link to it here. - UtherSRG 12:46, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I will grant you that. Do you think there is no value in noting vernacular names when they are known? If so, and others also agree, then I think the Template should be changed. It currently reads as follows:

VERNACULAR NAMES: Give names of the species in other languages as well as links to articles on this species in the particular wikipedia, for example: en:badger (links to the English wikipedia on badgers), de:Dachs (links to the German wikipedia article on badgers).

Given what you are doing I believe it should read

VERNACULAR NAMES: Give names of the species in other languages only if there are links to articles on this species in the particular wikipedia, for example: en:badger (links to the English wikipedia on badgers), de:Dachs (links to the German wikipedia article on badgers).

I personally do not care one way or the other, but I hate to see wasted effort.Thanks Open2universe 15:38, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the VERNACULAR NAMES should be changed into "LINKS TO WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES" or so. After all, there are interesting articles in Wikipedias about animals that do not give a common name (nl:Cryptonanus for example ;-)). We may make two separate sections "links to Wikipedia articles" and "Vernacular names". I made a list of common names (together with nl:Gebruiker:De Klauw) of mammals at nl:Gebruiker:Ucucha/Lijst. Most mammals for which we have a common name don't have a page. Ucucha 15:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I believe the script that carries through the deactivation of the name is disactivated until to arrive at an agreement.Alessandro70 15:47, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

What script? There is no such thing. - UtherSRG 02:47, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Script is automatic exclusion. You are deleting all Vernacular name in English, same what they having link. Vide Megalops atlanticus Vernacular name en:Tarpon. .Alessandro70 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I know what I am doing - I'm deleting incorrect or non-existant links. en:Tarpon is not the correct link. en:Atlantic tarpon is correct, but not yet written. - UtherSRG 01:51, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I had writted the link en:Atlantic tarpon, but it have deleted. You are delete the vernacular name en:Large Marble in the page Euchloe ausonides. I would like to know the reason..Alessandro70 01 September 2005 (UTC)

Simply making a one-line, typo-filled stub does not count as an article. If you are going to make a real article on en: wikipedia, put in a good effort of at least a full paragraph and a taxobox. Also, make sure it is consistent with eisting articles. One wikispecies article you had listed two en: articles, which you then created. This was also a bad play; there should only have been one article listing both names, with the other being a redirect. Since English is not your primary anguage, I suggest not making the en: links unless they already exist, and using whatever is your primary language (Espanol?) and linking to existing es: articles. - UtherSRG 13:05, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Can I make ?

==Vernacular Names==

*en:Large Marble

else

==Vernacular Names==

*[[en:Large Marble]]

for a non-existant links
Alessandro70 1 September 2005 (UTC)

No. Neither. - UtherSRG 19:19, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unplaced Didelphimorpha Genera

Except that it should be Didelphimorphia ;), I don't think this is a good idea. You put another, unused, taxon between the order and the genus, while these genera just belong to the order immediately. Szalinia, for example, is probably the sister taxon of all other didelphimorphs. Hyladelphys might be something like that, too. They're not "unplaced", they simply don't have a family name. In some cases, the classification scheme shouldn't be used too strictly ;-). Ucucha 19:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Looked at another way, these are all genera which belong to one or more families which have yet to be erected. While I may agree that the classification scheme shouldn't be followed too strictly for intermediary taxa, I have to disagree when it comes to the major taxa. - UtherSRG 20:36, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe, maybe, but I think it becomes more difficult to find these genera. I don't know why we can't simply put them directly into the Didelphimorphia article. Ucucha 14:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

To the uninitiated, it looks like we're listing all the (in this case) families and all the genera. Then some newless cluebie comes along and does the same to a new article or twelve, and I end up being the cleanup crew making dovens of new pages simply because they were "following the pattern". If each article only goes so far as the rank immediately below, and any taxa that skip that rank are lumped into one (or more - there's at least one of those) "Unspecified" listings, everything is consistent and there's less cleanup to be done from mistakes. - UtherSRG 14:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Another possibility is to write "Unplaced genera" and link it to a page in which an explanation is made. Ucucha 14:32, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

And just have one page for all of the unplaged geera in the whole tree of life? - UtherSRG 15:40, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

It will get very, very long, I think. Many fossil genera are not placed in a family. Ucucha 15:45, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Right. So doesn't Unplaced Didelphimorpha Genera make more sense? - UtherSRG 15:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that a page - unplaced genera or so - should be linked from the Didelphimorphia page. This page should include information about unplaced genera, why they are unplaced, and so on. Ucucha 15:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I didn't misunderstand you. I disagree with you. Having one huge article describing the lack of placement for all of the unplaced genera across the entire tree of life is unhelpful for folks drilling down through the tree. Instead, place each grouping of genera in an article unique to that grouping and, like any placed taxa, describe what's going on there. - UtherSRG 16:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Again, it should not be a list, but simply something like:

"Some taxa are not placed in a family, order, class, or phylum. This may have several causes:

• Some taxa are not known well enough to assign them to an appropriate subtaxon;
• Some taxa should have a subtaxon of their own, but this is not yet erected.

On Wikispecies, these subtaxa are listed under the taxon immediately above it."

What are you going to do with phyla containing one species, like Symbion pandora, but no orders or families? Ucucha 16:25, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

You're much more active, I think. Anyway thanks for your support :-). Maybe I had an even more overwhelming consensus when becoming an admin on nl: than you had on en:: 50+ votes for, no votes against ;-). Ucucha (talk) 14:35, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese vandalism

Can you block 60.176.92.113? This person inserted chinese links into various WikiSpecies pages. (See Special:Recentchanges)

I reverted the changes (I'm getting good at that ;-)) Thanx Lycaon 09:57, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Admin

My poll has ended, it seems. Can you please make me an admin? Ucucha (talk) 17:35, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Benedikt did it already. I'm sorry. Ucucha (talk) 17:36, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

That was good timing, wasn't it? ;D --Benedikt

[edit] blanking pages

Thanks for the deletion tip. Lycaon 16:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Orchids

In the process of 'cleaning up' orchid taxo, sadly a number of genera got lost (read deleted). What about e.g. Aceras anthropophorum (L.) R. Br. ex W. T. Aiton (The genus Aceras featured under Orchidinae)? Also some subtribes are now missing. I didn't check the whole lot though. Is it not a bit too thorough to delete pages immediately without the possibility of discussion and/or revert? (e.g. Habenariinae). Which sources did you use for your revision? Just wondering... and a bit worried... Lycaon 19:02, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

It was on our To Do list. Specifically, the task was to take w:Taxonomy_of_the_orchid_family and import it here. If I was too hasty in the few deletes I made, rest assured that I can restore the articles almost as quickly. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:22, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I was only a bit worried anyhow ;-). I also noticed that 'anyone' can put 'anything' on the To Do list (I did: I changed Done's in ToDo's and added Peracarida...). Lycaon 19:29, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Common name redirects

Hi, I think common name redirects like Araignée should be included. They make it easier to use Wikispecies for some persons. Ucucha (talk) 13:51, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Puma

Hi, am I correct to assume that vernacular names should be with the species, not with the genus? Lycaon 16:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Point taken Lycaon 16:35, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Is this statement also valid for descriptions (cfr. Babyrousa)? Lycaon 18:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

With the caveat that I don't think the text you point to is much in keeping with the Wikispecies concept, yes. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:19, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Insecta

In answer to your message, yes, I've done some restructuration on the Insecta (and I'll done some later to), cause this class was really messy. Some ordre and familly was treated as sous-class, many taxonomic system was mixed up, and in general, was the taxa was very incomplet when not totally wrong. It's sure that the Insecta will be something hard to keep correct cause the systematic change all the years, and they are many different taxonomic system. It's sure that I'll try to keep the articles in concordance with the others... but sometimes, it's just impossible.

For my informations, I take it from different books, and also, I'm doing an entomology cours at university, and I take some informations there. The principale book that I use is "The Insects: An Outline of Entomology" of P.J. Gullan and P.S. Cranston out in 2005. So the information about the systematic are at date.

-Trépas (talk)

[edit] Arabic

Hi Uther ... Thanks for ur Welcome Message , actually i have putted a question in village pump about making an arabic interface of wikispecies , but i got no answer , so i made it u can see it at الصفحة الرئيسية , please tell me if i need to apply a request for it or not --Chaos 19:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for ur reply .. could u please add this العربية (Arabic) to the template:Languages --Chaos 13:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Done. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Insertae sedis

Are you checking every single entry? I hope I didn't make more of those silly mistakes. Thanx for correcting. Lycaon 19:00, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion request

Since you're an admin, I was wondering if you'd like to delete the following pages (now redirects) you moved to other places a year ago (some were re-redirected six months ago by someone else):

• (Callithrix) - redirects to Callithrix (Callithrix)
• (Cebuella) - redirects to Callithrix (Cebuella)
• (Hylobates) - redirects to Hylobates
• (Mico) - redirects to Callithrix (Mico)
• (Nomascus) - redirects to Nomascus
• (Symphalangus) - redirects to Symphalangus

I've checked that nothing links to any of these pages (as of the hour I'm posting this). - dcljr 00:14, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty... Lycaon 07:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tetrapodomorpha Insertae sedis

Apart from the other problems you have been fixing, surely the word is INCERTAE not INSERTAE?--Keith Edkins (Talk) 14:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Quite so. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Username change request

Greetings! I'm a Wikipedia admin, and I've recently changed my username there to counter the trend of vandals digging for personal info on admins, in order to disrupt their non-wiki lives. I'd like to do the same here - can you please change my username to User:BD2412? BD2412 T 05:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I've changed your username. I'm not exactly UtherSRG, but I came across your post and I wanted to test the rename-user interface ;-). Ucucha (talk) 07:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for wandering by! BD2412 T 08:03, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logo discussion

Hi! I just wanted to draw your attention to a change to the logo I proposed at the village pump, since you seem to be one of the active administrators on this project. Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this! —Nightstallion (?) 13:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)